From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:07:28 +0000 Message-ID: <20080724080727.GA3448@muc.de> References: <87ej5oz4pb.fsf@saeurebad.de> <87vdyzxype.fsf@saeurebad.de> <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <48861A51.1090401@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216887373 16225 80.91.229.12 (24 Jul 2008 08:16:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:16:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lord@emf.net, drobinow@gmail.com, "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , hannes@saeurebad.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org To: Richard M Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 24 10:17:01 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KLw0P-0007zC-Pm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:16:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38994 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLvzW-0007lh-8r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:16:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLvzP-0007lA-Tp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:15:55 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLvzN-0007kq-OY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:15:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=60545 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLvzN-0007kn-Jh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:15:53 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:3372 helo=mail.muc.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KLvzN-0007KD-Ir for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:15:54 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 38217 invoked by uid 3782); 24 Jul 2008 08:07:38 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9E53E29.dip.t-dialin.net [217.229.62.41]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:07:34 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 3972 invoked by uid 1000); 24 Jul 2008 08:07:28 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101374 Archived-At: Hi, Richard! On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:56:12PM -0400, Richard M Stallman wrote: > IF making free programs working on windows helps promote GNU/Linux > (or Herd) is not that good? > Yes, but we can't assume in general that that is the case. For a few > programs, such as OpenOffice and Firefox, the fact that they run on > Windows seems to be a signficant aid to migration to GNU/Linux. But I > don't see that this is true for other free programs. This is rather fundamental: Why do we write free software? My personal motivation is to make the world a better place. I think for you, by contrast, the propagation of free software is an end in itself, so your answers to the following questions might well be different from mine. When I ask myself, is the world better for having Emacs and Firefox running on Microsoft Windows, the answer is an unequivocal yes - people who hack on MS-Windows can thus do a better job. Therefore it is worthwhile spending effort making Emacs work on this (and other proprietary) systems. Could the availability of free software on non-free OSs remove an incentive for people to convert to completely free systems? It could in theory, but I don't think it does in practice. In most of the places I've worked, there's a massive network of MS-Windows PCs, and sometimes there's a Unix network too. Converting to GNU or BSD isn't an option in these places. Getting people to use Emacs is, though. All of the people I've introduced to Emacs have taken it up because I've shown them what it can do and they've liked it. This even includes a project manager, who liked Hi Lock Mode. None of them were bothered at all about it being free software, beyond the welcome lack of licensing hassles. The availability of free software on proprietary OSs might well cause the newly enlightened to explore free software further and possibly to start hacking it. A lack of free software on these OSs most surely will not. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).