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From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
To: Richard M Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Cc: lord@emf.net, drobinow@gmail.com,
	"Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>,
	hannes@saeurebad.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:07:28 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080724080727.GA3448@muc.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1KLhdM-0007WY-1W@fencepost.gnu.org>

Hi, Richard!

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:56:12PM -0400, Richard M Stallman wrote:
>     IF making free programs working on windows helps promote GNU/Linux
>     (or Herd) is not that good?

> Yes, but we can't assume in general that that is the case.  For a few
> programs, such as OpenOffice and Firefox, the fact that they run on
> Windows seems to be a signficant aid to migration to GNU/Linux.  But I
> don't see that this is true for other free programs.

This is rather fundamental:  Why do we write free software? My personal
motivation is to make the world a better place.  I think for you, by
contrast, the propagation of free software is an end in itself, so your
answers to the following questions might well be different from mine.

When I ask myself, is the world better for having Emacs and Firefox
running on Microsoft Windows, the answer is an unequivocal yes - people
who hack on MS-Windows can thus do a better job.  Therefore it is
worthwhile spending effort making Emacs work on this (and other
proprietary) systems.

Could the availability of free software on non-free OSs remove an
incentive for people to convert to completely free systems?  It could in
theory, but I don't think it does in practice.  In most of the places
I've worked, there's a massive network of MS-Windows PCs, and sometimes
there's a Unix network too.  Converting to GNU or BSD isn't an option in
these places.

Getting people to use Emacs is, though.  All of the people I've
introduced to Emacs have taken it up because I've shown them what it can
do and they've liked it.  This even includes a project manager, who liked
Hi Lock Mode.  None of them were bothered at all about it being free
software, beyond the welcome lack of licensing hassles.

The availability of free software on proprietary OSs might well cause the
newly enlightened to explore free software further and possibly to start
hacking it.  A lack of free software on these OSs most surely will not.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).




  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-07-24  8:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 279+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <36366a980807091202rd3b6521jc9fa45d321bc9d37@mail.gmail.com>
2008-07-11  0:02 ` Emacs vista build failures Eric Hanchrow
2008-07-11 16:49   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-11 19:05     ` David Robinow
2008-07-11 23:33       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12  7:57         ` David Kastrup
2008-07-12 16:35           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12 17:21             ` David Kastrup
2008-07-13  9:35               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-13  9:46                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-14 11:05                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-11 19:17     ` David Robinow
2008-07-11 20:39       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-11 20:45         ` David Robinow
2008-07-11 20:57           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-12 16:35             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12 19:46               ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-12 20:17                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-12 10:49           ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-12 16:35           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12 20:40             ` David Robinow
2008-07-12 22:47               ` Bastien
2008-07-13 19:10               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-13 20:44                 ` Claus
     [not found]                   ` <87tzet8c3i.fsf@offby1.atm01.sea.blarg.net>
2008-07-14  8:43                     ` Claus
2008-07-15  3:06                       ` Eric Hanchrow
2008-07-14 17:38                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-13 20:46               ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-13 21:46                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-13 21:40                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-13 22:53                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-13 22:53                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-13 23:46                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-14 10:27                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-14 11:58                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-14 17:39                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-14 19:33                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15 18:04                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-15 20:29                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15 21:02                             ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-15 23:42                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-16  1:42                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-16  1:58                                   ` Miles Bader
2008-07-16  2:43                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-16  3:01                                       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-16  4:44                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-16  4:43                                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-14 10:45                       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-14 12:24                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-14 12:20                           ` joakim
2008-07-14 12:32                             ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15 18:04                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-13 21:48                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-13 23:26                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-13 23:22                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-14 20:42                         ` Don Armstrong
2008-07-14 21:05                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 14:36                             ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 15:20                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 22:04                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 21:23                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-16 22:17                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-17  8:31                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-14 22:30                           ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs [Was: Emacs vista build failures] Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-14 23:54                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-15  1:05                               ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs Miles Bader
2008-07-15  7:11                                 ` Geoffrey Teale
2008-07-15  8:12                                   ` Miles Bader
2008-07-15  9:48                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15  5:58                               ` Ralf Angeli
2008-07-15  6:50                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15 18:09                                   ` Ralf Angeli
2008-07-15 21:53                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 14:22                                   ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 15:22                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 20:42                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-16 22:26                                       ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-17  8:46                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-18  9:08                                         ` Agustin Martin
2008-07-15  1:38                             ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs [Was: Emacs vista build failures] Don Armstrong
2008-07-15  2:20                               ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs Stefan Monnier
2008-07-15  6:43                                 ` Don Armstrong
2008-07-15  6:55                               ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs [Was: Emacs vista build failures] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-15 10:15                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15 10:08                                 ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs David Kastrup
2008-07-16 14:09                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 16:34                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-16 19:43                               ` Karl Fogel
2008-07-16 19:59                                 ` Karl Fogel
2008-07-16 21:59                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-21 21:26                                   ` Karl Fogel
2008-07-22  4:27                                     ` Miles Bader
2008-07-22 14:21                                       ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-23  5:13                                       ` Michael Olson
2008-07-23 19:49                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-24 17:44                                           ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-24 20:20                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-22 14:22                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-14  1:42                     ` Emacs vista build failures Stefan Monnier
2008-07-14 17:38                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-14 17:38                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-14 19:56                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15  8:28                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-15  7:54                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-15  8:52                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-15  8:57                         ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15 17:14                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-17 22:54                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-17 23:48                           ` Miles Bader
2008-07-19 17:06                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20  4:08                               ` Miles Bader
2008-07-20 17:21                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20 20:22                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21  3:29                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 11:29                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 13:59                                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-21 17:55                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 18:05                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21 18:37                                               ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 18:49                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21 19:30                                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 19:36                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21 22:54                                                       ` Evans Winner
2008-07-22  6:47                                                         ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22  8:16                                                         ` Jason Rumney
2008-07-22  8:26                                                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 13:46                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 13:58                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 14:34                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 17:22                                                             ` James Cloos
2008-07-22 17:31                                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 20:11                                                             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-22 20:19                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 22:14                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 22:23                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-23  6:59                                                                   ` Stephen Leake
2008-07-23  8:20                                                                     ` Jason Rumney
2008-07-23 12:49                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-23  8:45                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-23  6:35                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 20:06                                                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-22 20:24                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 20:31                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 20:45                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 20:59                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 21:03                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 22:18                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-21 22:47                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-21 23:11                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 13:13                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 13:24                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 13:51                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 13:57                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 14:34                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 15:12                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 15:21                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 17:29                                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 23:55                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-22  3:41                                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-22 13:28                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 14:04                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 14:11                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 14:39                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 14:47                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 14:52                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 15:00                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 15:13                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 15:18                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 15:20                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 15:22                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 15:26                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 22:11                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-23  6:32                                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 18:52                                                               ` Sven Joachim
2008-07-22 19:12                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 19:33                                                                   ` Sean O'Rourke
2008-07-22 14:42                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 14:57                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 14:37                                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-23  2:26                                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-23  3:40                                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-23  3:45                                                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-24  2:24                                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-24  3:34                                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-24  2:44                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-24  3:29                                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-22 17:29                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22 17:35                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 18:40                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 11:06                                                     ` Bastien
2008-07-23 16:56                                                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-23 17:42                                                     ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-24  0:06                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24  5:25                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-24 22:04                                                       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-24 22:26                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24 23:15                                                           ` Nick Roberts
2008-07-24 23:22                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  1:23                                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  1:23                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-24 23:12                                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-07-26  1:23                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  6:23                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  6:45                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  7:07                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-25  3:20                                                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-26  1:24                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25 14:18                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  1:24                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  6:21                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-24  8:07                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie [this message]
2008-07-24 10:20                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-24 22:05                                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25 14:20                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-25 14:51                                                             ` David Kastrup
2008-07-25 15:08                                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-25 15:38                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-25 15:55                                                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-25 16:08                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-25 16:19                                                                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-25 15:40                                                                 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-25 15:56                                                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26 20:31                                                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26 20:56                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-25 19:21                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-26  6:03                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  1:24                                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  6:19                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  8:03                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-26  8:50                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26  9:22                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  9:50                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26  9:55                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26 10:15                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 10:32                                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26 10:29                                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-26 11:11                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 12:33                                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-26 14:26                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 21:34                                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26 23:52                                                                 ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-27 17:14                                                                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-28  0:05                                                                     ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-28 21:47                                                                       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-29  1:00                                                                         ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-29  6:21                                                                           ` tomas
2008-07-29 15:21                                                                             ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-30  3:46                                                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-30  3:47                                                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-30  3:47                                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25  5:35                                                       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22 17:29                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 16:48                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-22  2:48                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 13:55                                       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-20 20:36                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21  3:29                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21  6:14                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-21  9:04                                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22  2:48                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20  6:35                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-20 22:05                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20 22:05                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21  0:43                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-21 14:37                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 14:51                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22  2:49                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22 12:46                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-23  2:27                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22  8:02                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-22 16:31                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-18  0:05                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-19 17:05                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-19 21:34                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-23 18:17                               ` Karl Berry
2008-07-23 20:18                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-24  6:19                                   ` Gilaras Drakeson
2008-07-25  5:35                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25  7:08                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-21  5:14 christophe

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