From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mike Mattie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:06:43 -0700 Message-ID: <20080331150643.78efa7d9@reforged> References: <87myopnj0l.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874pavg45t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <004d01c88e01$0f93b8f0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <20080325213859.GB1641@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/qR6pDaelIBXw0OOS/4BrYZo"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1207001300 20654 80.91.229.12 (31 Mar 2008 22:08:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:08:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 01 00:08:52 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JgSB7-0005Ht-NK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:08:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JgSAV-0008VP-Oh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:07:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JgSAR-0008VJ-GS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:07:51 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JgSAN-0008TN-Q7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:07:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JgSAN-0008TD-MC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:07:47 -0400 Original-Received: from el-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.162.177]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JgSAN-000601-54 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:07:47 -0400 Original-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n30so674990elf.7 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:07:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type; bh=apnU2727ZvIGNOgdVLcpauOU11hccP3Y1AW42lSimDw=; b=X4L+x6UD2Z4h1P7xiftgQn5LsJEXthZ88WoN2JfL4zwL7pUgy4ZXyDedJTTml9HGLE3NIkXguk/PtLRtTnlrJaFU57dGbtGFBwQ25FKoq/vkglOpM1Sa8RmujRXFd3EdeldrfSu47JzzORAPaRnGuRFVrgEdI5L2KLUVYhTAe6k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type; b=JaWHSCbJLbB9PmbjAPPnR+D89kXLUP7U/f7UrSXtoFFRzOhnYlgZnQQ2jNf2viu7m5E7mNrrWl48n6klrGfnoEelFIZMQg09zmTbq6u4GrAwTfsVeloMqh4vbmZqzFBwskSWZFuDbFJA2wr9HyUrJ4/2LE/S6nbmy2iqCYYucKo= Original-Received: by 10.114.190.6 with SMTP id n6mr10990679waf.131.1207001264908; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from reforged ( [71.217.206.83]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z20sm10318547pod.4.2008.03.31.15.07.38 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:07:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.2 (GTK+ 2.12.8; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:94070 Archived-At: --Sig_/qR6pDaelIBXw0OOS/4BrYZo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:24:42 -0400 Richard Stallman wrote: > > "You are running an Emacs configuration designed to be easy > > to _learn_. When you have become somewhat proficient in its > > use, you may wish to switch to a standard Emacs setup, which is > > optimised for ease of _use_ rather than ease of learning." >=20 > I like how you formulate the difference between ease of learn and > ease of use. >=20 > Making Emacs easier to learn is an improvement, in general. > But what use is there in having a different Emacs configuration > which is easier to learn, if it is not the recommended mode of use? >=20 > That seems like telling people a shortcut leading to somewhere other > than their destination. That is the essence of my disagreement by endorsing t-m-m with default status. Since the user's of things like t-m-m can't articulate how the mode enhances their productivity beyond force of habit, expecting them to articulate where they are going with it (other than emulation - a poor standard: emulating which program/system?),= =20 and how it's useful is not possible. The fact that the region abstraction is thoroughly broken as well because they tried to make persistent marks transient, instead of making regions transient is a disaster piled on top of confusion. I won't argue with force of habit, but I will argue with quick and dirty ha= cks where the Right Way: a new region abstraction, was eschewed for implementat= ion speed leaving a legacy of nasty complexity for others to sort out. Others sorting it out implies someone who cares enough about making it simp= le enough that bugs are obvious doing a considerable amount of work. The alter= native is more hair and bugs. >=20 --Sig_/qR6pDaelIBXw0OOS/4BrYZo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH8WBzdfRchrkBInkRAk21AJ0Ry2aXMrygM4UClzzNRYhYfkjvIwCgwzwQ fVfWp0zpfHsei73RpjMMV1g= =OL1H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/qR6pDaelIBXw0OOS/4BrYZo--