From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default [Re: CUA-mode features and documenation] Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:52:31 +0000 Message-ID: <20080219085231.GA1032@muc.de> References: <200802131623.m1DGNrls003614@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <87odakwl2r.fsf@jurta.org> <87myq4saw1.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <878x1ov227.fsf@jurta.org> <878x1os6mt.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <47B39231.8010108@gmail.com> <200802151711.m1FHB3Y3008798@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <200802171658.m1HGwQ4h011067@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203414199 31636 80.91.229.12 (19 Feb 2008 09:43:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:43:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, storm@cua.dk, miles@gnu.org To: Dan Nicolaescu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 19 10:43:42 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JRP0n-0007Rw-4t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:43:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRP0I-0000EH-95 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 04:43:10 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JROz1-00082L-EH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 04:41:51 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JROyw-0007zl-F9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 04:41:50 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JROyv-0007zb-Ui for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 04:41:46 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1] helo=mail.muc.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JROyv-0008Rx-B4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 04:41:45 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 19256 invoked by uid 3782); 19 Feb 2008 08:40:09 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p57AF6CD9.dip.t-dialin.net [87.175.108.217]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:40:00 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 1554 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Feb 2008 08:52:31 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200802171658.m1HGwQ4h011067@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89556 Archived-At: Hi, Dan! On Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 08:58:26AM -0800, Dan Nicolaescu wrote: > Richard Stallman writes: > > BTW, before the pretest for 22.1 you were trying > > transient-mark-mode in order to enable it by default. What was > > the result of that experiment? > > I could not stand Transient Mark mode by itself. However, I now > > use it with `mark-even-if-inactive' = t, and I think that is fine. > OK, I have changed the default for mark-even-if-inactive to be t and > turned on transient-mark-mode by default. I feel I must protest about this. I tried transient-mark-mode yesterday (for the first time) on a Solaris system (Emacs 22.1). I'm trying it now on my Linux TTY, also Emacs 22.1. I've done nothing more than M-x transient-mark-mode (in a buffer.el loaded by desktop), and already half of the screen's font-locking has been obliterated by an ugly heavy blue transient-mark face (whatever it's called). (The same happened yesterday on Solaris running X-Windows). I do M-: mark-even-if-inactive, and the blue face vanishes in an explosion. I can't work when things explode in my face. Then M-: (setq mark-even-if-inactive t). Things behave a bit more sanely. Then C-x 5 b *info*. 90% of the manual page was obliterated by this ghastly overpowering deep blue face. By experimentation, C-g got rid of it. Transient Mark mode is a radical departure from standard Emacs, in which the concept of the mark is substantially changed. I don't think we're talking here about two equally valid ways of doing things, one of which we must chose; rather we have an option which can be on or off by default - a bit like paren matching. Such options shouldn't, in general, be on by default. OK, I {sh,c}ould read the fine manual, but I've deliberately avoided this, so as to simulate the reactions of typical users. I think enough typical users will detest this facility, that it should not be thrust upon them. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).