For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Don Saklad]

For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of
experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... on
fencepost.gnu.org

Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Eric Hanchrow]

>>>>> "Don" == Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> writes:

    Don> For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering
    Don> of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...  

Seriously: I'd find some other mail reader.  Gnus is incredibly complex.

-- 
If you're trying to choose between two theories and one gives
you an excuse for being lazy, the other one is probably right.
        -- Paul Graham

Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Joel J. Adamson]

Eric Hanchrow <offby1@blarg.net> writes:

>>>>>> "Don" == Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> writes:
>
>     Don> For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering
>     Don> of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...  
>
> Seriously: I'd find some other mail reader.  Gnus is incredibly complex.

It's also incredibly awesome.

My suggestion: become a programmer; until then you will be a victim.

Joel

-- 
Joel J. Adamson
Biostatistician
Pediatric Psychopharmacology Research Unit
Massachusetts General Hospital
Boston, MA  02114
(617) 643-1432
(303) 880-3109

Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Bastien Guerry]

Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> writes:

> For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of
> experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... on
> fencepost.gnu.org

This minimal Gnus configuration file might help you here:

http://www.cognition.ens.fr/~guerry/u/gnus-minimal.el

-- 
Bastien

Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Reiner Steib]

On Thu, Feb 14 2008, Bastien Guerry wrote:

> This minimal Gnus configuration file might help you here:

I wouldn't call it "minimal Gnus configuration file".  Some settings
there are already the default, not required or just a matter of taste.

,----[ (info "(gnus)Starting Up") ]
|    If your system administrator has set things up properly, starting
| Gnus and reading news is extremely easy--you just type `M-x gnus' in
| your Emacs.  If not, you should customize the variable
| `gnus-select-method' as described in *Note Finding the News::.  For a
| minimal setup for posting should also customize the variables
| `user-full-name' and `user-mail-address'.
`----

For mail, you need to set up `gnus-secondary-select-methods' as
described in...

,----[ (info "(gnus)Getting Started Reading Mail") ]
|    For instance, if you want to use `nnml' (which is a "one file per
| mail" back end), you could put the following in your `~/.gnus.el' file:
| 
|      (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "")))
| 
|    Now, the next time you start Gnus, this back end will be queried for
| new articles, and it will move all the messages in your spool file to
| its directory, which is `~/Mail/' by default.  The new group that will
| be created (`mail.misc') will be subscribed, and you can read it like
| any other group.
`----


Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Sam Peterson]

Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> on Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:58:37 -0500 didst
step forth and proclaim thus:

> For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of
> experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... on
> fencepost.gnu.org

Gnus is one of those Emacs applications that requires extensive
juggling of elisp.  It's awesome, I use it, but if you really want its
benefits, you're forced to deal with its complexity.  The best
suggestion is to work with somebody else's ~/.gnus and work with that
until it turns into something that you find usable.

-- 
Sam Peterson
skpeterson At nospam ucdavis.edu
"if programmers were paid to remove code instead of adding it,
software would be much better" -- unknown

Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Bastien]

Hi Reiner,

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> On Thu, Feb 14 2008, Bastien Guerry wrote:
>
>> This minimal Gnus configuration file might help you here:
>
> I wouldn't call it "minimal Gnus configuration file".  Some settings
> there are already the default, not required or just a matter of taste.

I think that knowing the name of the variables which are setting the
default can be helpful for those who want to change the default.  

As for the matter of taste, I'd be happy to improve the file if you
suggest to remove something.

> ,----[ (info "(gnus)Starting Up") ]
> ,----[ (info "(gnus)Getting Started Reading Mail") ]

I know this.  But the first page doesn't really mention the second one,
and the second page is the 6.3.2 section.  Might take time to get there.

Maybe the only useful thing in my config example is this:

,----
| (setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil))
| (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "")))
`----

I think this is the correct way to configure Gnus for reading email 
(if you choose the `nnml' backend, which is a matter of taste.)

But the Gnus manual doesn't mention `nnnil' *anywhere*.

On http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/GnusQuestions you can read
this:

,----
| • What is the supposed way to just read mail and no news at all?
|   Currently I have
| 
|   (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml ""))
| 
|   and no secondary-select-method at all, but I feel it’s not right.
| 
| • Who is this stupid asking all this basic stuff anyone knows anyway?
|   – StefanKamphausen (thankful for any pointers ;-) )
`----

It is not easy to figure out what is the correct setting for
`gnus-select-method' when you just want to read email.  

-- 
Bastien

Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Tassilo Horn]

Sam Peterson <skpeterson@nospam.please.ucdavis.edu> writes:

Hi Sam,

> The best suggestion is to work with somebody else's ~/.gnus and work
> with that until it turns into something that you find usable.

Oh, I hope Reiner won't see that. ;-) The usual advice to newbies is:
"Don't use code you find on the net, and don't fiddle with things you're
not sure about!  Read the manual and ask on the relevant newsgroups
instead."

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Don Saklad]

Thank you Bastien !

     For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of
     experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... on
     fencepost.gnu.org
     
     > This minimal Gnus configuration file might help you here:
       http://www.cognition.ens.fr/~guerry/u/gnus-minimal.el

     > Bastien


For users not programmers with sketchier experience than a smattering,
how might they setup gnus for reading email ?...

...the problematical question about discovering ways for introducing
novices to the delights of gnus for believers in reductive simplifying
of even the most complex things!

Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Bastien Guerry]

Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> writes:

> Thank you Bastien !

So, did it help? 

> ...the problematical question about discovering ways for introducing
> novices to the delights of gnus for believers in reductive simplifying
> of even the most complex things!

Even non-programmer should be opened the doors of Gnus.  And read the
manual.  It's always worth the time you spend on it.

-- 
Bastien

Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Don Saklad]

> So, did it help? 

          Yup, it did.

          Well, here, to get gnus going for email it's between
          dealing with symptoms like dyslexia and ADD
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-Deficit_Hyperactivity_Disorder
          
          Complexity can be interesting, greater usability can take
          into account nonprogrammer users having difficulties with
          manual texts whether it's the writing of the text or
          limitations of the users attempting to interpret the manual
          texts.

Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[Mike Mattie]

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On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 08:04:53 -0500
Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> wrote:

> > So, did it help? 
> 
>           Yup, it did.
> 
>           Well, here, to get gnus going for email it's between
>           dealing with symptoms like dyslexia and ADD
>           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-Deficit_Hyperactivity_Disorder

I don't know much about dyslexia, but Emacs can be setup to reduce the impact ADD symptoms,
unfortunately it requires a little bit of Emacs sophistication.

1. Emacs

Emacs is a ADD happy place. Many of the Emacs developers and users place a extremely high
value on a interface that does not distract. It also rarely creates new frames (windows)
which is a *huge* bonus. You can rely on the principle that any distracting Emacs feature
will have an off switch.

You can turn off most of the menus and fullscreen Emacs. The buffer management is nearly
ideal for ADD since the buffers are not visible in any way unless you go looking for them.

If you learn how to use the Emacs command interface (alt-x) it can be a benefit and a risk. You can
get things done in the editor by typing commands without alot of interface being presented at you.
Even more importantly the command interface does not linger or grow like cancer across your
screen as pop-up menus do.

The risk is that there is so many interesting functions, and so many ways to do something, that you can
get stuck in a recursive "better way" or "exploration" loop for a while. No cure for that, it's the
fun part of Emacs.

2. Desktop

The typical desktop designed around multi-tasking can be crippling. Every window and desktop
gizmo unrelated to your current task is lethal to your focus. A window manager that allows 
you to create workspaces you can switch between is a huge help.

I put coding in one, communications in another, and leave another workspace for misc programs 
that are allowed to clutter up the workspace with windows. The major programs that I use such 
as Emacs,Firefox, and a mail client are *always* full screened. I change my task focus by changing 
workspaces, and I cycle applications within a task group only when necessary.

A setup like this can give you a fighting chance to discipline yourself to stay on task. If you want to 
use Gnus and keep this task separation you can create a frame for gnus in a communications workspace, 
and a primary Emacs frame in your work workspace.



>           Complexity can be interesting, greater usability can take
>           into account nonprogrammer users having difficulties with
>           manual texts whether it's the writing of the text or
>           limitations of the users attempting to interpret the manual
>           texts.
> 
> 

If you have difficulty reading text you definitely are going to have a rough time. You might be able
to setup EmacsSpeak, which converts text to speech. You might be able to get it to read the manuals
to you. Anything as complex as a computer is going to have alot of RTFM involved so it would likely
be worth the investment to get it working well in at least one application.

On a more general note I would say the MS Windows interface ideas are a un-mitigated disaster for ADD. Everything
pops up a new window, everything blinks, flashes, and in general it looks like the circus is running your desktop.
The interface is multi-tasking centric which is lethal, and the apps are advertising/brand centric which means they will do
anything to steal and stay in your attention.

The Mac interface is very balanced, the dashboard is really helpful because it disappears. Unfortunately I haven't figured
out how to switch window managers yet. The mac interface is smarter but it's still hard to get rid of all the desktop
icons (lethal distraction), and diet the menus.

Linux is the best since you can create an ideal environment with some programming skills. It will likely require a
significant investment in time and effort to learn if you have not already. I think ubuntu is lowering the bar
considerably - it may be an option.

The web is the seventh ring of hell for ADD. Add-block plus is a minimum, and if you can tolerate noscript it
will get rid of almost all the visual blitzkrieg that assaults you when pages load. I am fortunate that the
most useful programming sights are still "old web".

Whatever you do, you are likely on your own as far as modern computers are concerned. A truly distraction free
environment is a advertising/branding free environment for the most part, and multi-tasking is out of the question.
The market forces won't be catering to you any time soon. Every once in a while for my own amusement I propose
interface changes that make software easily dismissed from the user's attention. If they actually think about
it instead of laughing outright it can be amusing to watch a MBA's brain malfunction for a while.

You will have to roll up your sleeves and cater to your own needs AFAICS. Luckily modern programs are getting alot 
easier to modify, and Emacs is the king of user modification.

Cheers,
Mike Mattie

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Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?...

[David Combs]

Myself, I do not use gnus.  I don't even know its benefits.

What I do use is TRN4, and I can't imagine what features or
whatever I'd want to make it better.  Nor can I imagine a
better newsreader. 

Please, is there someone there who has used trn4 more than
once or twice?  

If so, could that person tell me why gnus is so superior?

That'd be really nice.


And for mail I use mutt.  Works for me.

What's nice about each is they don't require a windowing
and mouse system, but need only essentially what
vi needs.

(emacs is of course wonderful indeed.  I, like probably everyone
else here, "live in" emacs, hardly having to ^Z or go to some
other window (emacs-term: frame) dtterm.  Heck, I'll keep
up an emacs for a *long* time.  But still, it's trn4 and mutt
for me -- so far).

Thanks!

David