From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:06:54 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20080101010654.GJ26639@thyrsus.com> References: <20071230122217.3CA84830B9A@snark.thyrsus.com> <20071231130712.GB8641@thyrsus.com> <20071231214108.GD26639@thyrsus.com> <87fxxi1k4k.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199150237 19459 80.91.229.12 (1 Jan 2008 01:17:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 01:17:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@snark.thyrsus.com, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 01 02:17:32 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J9Vl3-0006hJ-BP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 02:17:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Vkh-00031v-Cw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:17:07 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Vk2-0002Pw-N4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:16:26 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Vk1-0002PJ-Oc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:16:25 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Vk1-0002P5-E0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:16:25 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=golux.thyrsus.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J9Vju-0005hC-Ay; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:16:18 -0500 Original-Received: by golux.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 23) id 0DE24CF80D3; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:06:54 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87fxxi1k4k.fsf@catnip.gol.com> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85788 Archived-At: Miles Bader : > These people apparently treat software as some kind of fashion contest. > Do you expect us to put any stock in what they say? Well...at least two of them, to my certain personal knowledge, have been expert Emacs users in the past. (I'm thinking of David and Cyndy Matuszek, in case anyone here has ever met them.) They're not fashionistas. They have a belief, which is not badly founded given the evidence available to them, that the Emacs project is old, tired, badly run, and effectively moribund. I can't say that I blame them much for this. We have a lot of work to do to re-establish the level of credibility we enjoyed at the time I was last directly involved in the early 1990s. -- Eric S. Raymond