From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dan Nicolaescu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:27:07 -0800 Message-ID: <200801010027.m010R74P025484@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> References: <20071230122217.3CA84830B9A@snark.thyrsus.com> <20071231130712.GB8641@thyrsus.com> <20071231214108.GD26639@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199147261 13121 80.91.229.12 (1 Jan 2008 00:27:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 00:27:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 01 01:27:55 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J9Uz4-0006rK-G9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 01:27:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Uyi-0007ia-Nv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:27:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Uyf-0007hb-2Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:27:29 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Uyd-0007hI-I6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:27:27 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Uyd-0007hF-CS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:27:27 -0500 Original-Received: from oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu ([128.195.1.41]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J9UyZ-0007Md-CX; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:27:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mothra.ics.uci.edu (mothra.ics.uci.edu [128.195.6.93]) by oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m010R74P025484; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:27:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 01 Jan 2008 01:12:34 +0200") Original-Lines: 26 X-ICS-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ICS-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.44, required 5, autolearn=disabled, ALL_TRUSTED -1.44) X-ICS-MailScanner-From: dann@mothra.ics.uci.edu X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85784 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:41:08 -0500 > > From: "Eric S. Raymond" > > Cc: esr@snark.thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > I proudly mentioned my work on VC-mode, and got majorly dumped on for > > bothering with Emacs at all. The kids out there think we're a > > stagnant backwater, an old-boys club of bearded grognards that has > > learned nothing and forgotten nothing for the last decade. > > Curiously enough, I'm having an opposite experience these days: a > bunch of extremely able developers who work for years with MS Visual > Studio came to respect Emacs, as a viable and powerful alternative to > the bloated and dog-slow Studio, even on Windows, to say nothing of > GNU/Linux (this is a dual-platform project, where software is > developed to run on both systems). All I needed to do is introduce > them to some optional features, such as Speedbar, ebrowse, and gdb-ui, > and craft a simple .emacs to bind the various Fn keys to > compile/run/debug commands they were used to have. After that, I > never again heard anyone of them laughing at "stagnant backwater" that > is Emacs. Care to post an example of such .emacs? Maybe it can be used as a skeleton for a package for such users, or maybe we can change some defaults to match such users' expectations.