From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:45:20 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20071231154520.GE8641@thyrsus.com> References: <20071230122217.3CA84830B9A@snark.thyrsus.com> <20071231131129.GA2737@muc.de> <87lk7b0zg6.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <20071231134402.GB2737@muc.de> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199115950 30367 80.91.229.12 (31 Dec 2007 15:45:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:45:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Miles Bader To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 31 16:46:04 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J9Mq4-0000mA-22 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:46:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Mpi-0000m7-DV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:45:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9MpY-0000iz-JN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:45:32 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9MpX-0000iH-9x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:45:32 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9MpX-0000i8-0o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:45:31 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=golux.thyrsus.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J9MpT-0005Oh-9M; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:45:27 -0500 Original-Received: by golux.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 23) id 178E0CF80C1; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:45:20 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071231134402.GB2737@muc.de> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85743 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie : > My feeling is that better tools would make a substantial difference - > perhaps 25% better productivity for me - but nothing like an order of > magnitude. This one is hard for me to evaluate, because Wesnoth is my only C++ project -- more usually I work in Python and C, and my stuff here is Lisp (I was active in the Emacs C core once, but that was long ago). That said, I think your 25% guess is about right as far as lines of code goes. But that wouldn't measure the whole gain -- because with better tools, my coding effort is quite a bit more likely to be directed appropriately. (This is the particular reason bug trackers are really important.) > Miles, why aren't we all switching to arch? Would it be appropriate for > Emacs now? Please not Arch. I just learned it; brilliant ideas, but its interface should be be outlawed under the Geneva convention as a form of torture. -- Eric S. Raymond