From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dan Nicolaescu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: scroll-conservatively default Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:25:01 -0800 Message-ID: <200712040725.lB47P150025265@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> References: <200712020048.lB20mS9R002812@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200712032120.lB3LKwJ1003309@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1196753278 10160 80.91.229.12 (4 Dec 2007 07:27:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 07:27:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 04 08:28:08 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IzSCJ-0002dX-UJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 08:28:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzSC3-0006UR-9E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:27:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IzSBz-0006Tw-Rl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:27:43 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IzSBy-0006Tk-8U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:27:43 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzSBy-0006Th-4h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:27:42 -0500 Original-Received: from oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu ([128.195.1.41]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IzSBt-0001wr-Bd; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:27:37 -0500 Original-Received: from mothra.ics.uci.edu (mothra.ics.uci.edu [128.195.6.93]) by oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lB47P150025265; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:25:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:13:13 +0200") Original-Lines: 33 X-ICS-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ICS-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.44, required 5, autolearn=disabled, ALL_TRUSTED -1.44) X-ICS-MailScanner-From: dann@mothra.ics.uci.edu X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:84634 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > From: Dan Nicolaescu > > Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:20:57 -0800 > > > > 2. Defaults should not be chosen based on what people that can write > > their own .emacs like. > > The point was that, given the age of this feature (see below), many > users would be accustomed to this behavior, so changing this > particular default would require them all to modify their .emacs. > That's be a hassle, I think. My point is that we need to balance the hassle for the old users with the one for new users that are not used to the behavior. > > Emacs should try to be consistent with the general accepted behavior > > of other applications. And only try to be different after very > > careful consideration. > > This would be a valid argument if we were discussing some new behavior > that didn't exist before. But this particular behavior (scrolling > when point goes outside the visible portion of the buffer) was in > Emacs since day one, many years ago, when practically speaking there > were no "other applications" to be compatible with. So I don't see > how this argument applies here. IMO it is still a valid argument. Users use many more applications today, and there are some common behaviors that they have come to expect. Yes, emacs pioneered many many things, and lots of features have been adopted elsewhere. But some other things have evolved and have been "standardized" in a different way, and we should seriously consider changing the defaults to match what other applications are doing.