From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: byte compiling defcustom Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:41:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200711181841.lAIIfDB2028254@jane.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200711171647.lAHGlHqH024027@jane.dms.auburn.edu> <200711172032.lAHKWhgx025030@jane.dms.auburn.edu> <200711172041.lAHKf2SG025058@jane.dms.auburn.edu> <200711180413.lAI4DLF8025958@jane.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1195411401 10906 80.91.229.12 (18 Nov 2007 18:43:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:43:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rms@gnu.org To: dann@ics.uci.edu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 18 19:43:26 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Itp77-0001hg-MR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:43:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Itp6u-0001ky-Eb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:43:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Itp6r-0001kg-Aq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:43:09 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Itp6q-0001kB-F1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:43:08 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Itp6q-0001k7-6m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:43:08 -0500 Original-Received: from manatee.dms.auburn.edu ([131.204.53.104]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA1:24) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Itp6l-0000fe-UX; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:43:04 -0500 Original-Received: from jane.dms.auburn.edu (jane.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.201]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id lAIIh2ig022296; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:43:02 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from jane.dms.auburn.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jane.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.4) with ESMTP id lAIIfDej028257; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:41:13 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by jane.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/Submit) id lAIIfDB2028254; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:41:13 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: jane.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f In-reply-to: (message from Dan Nicolaescu on Sun, 18 Nov 2007 10:04:18 -0800) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:83550 Archived-At: Richard already made a decision on this. But just to help you explain the decision: This returns (2). And I would argue that this is the right thing to do for _this_ example For _this_ example obviously yes, but see my response to Stefan. Now, is there a situation where showing a lisp expression is the desired thing? Any examples in the emacs sources? Plenty, but since a decision has already been made, I am not going to spend time finding some of them among the even more numerous defcustoms whose default values are booleans and such (for which it does not make a difference). Without any examples I am inclined to believe that showing users lisp code defeats one of the purposes of defcustom: not having to write lisp to customize behavior. It does not _serve_, but in no way _defeats_ either, _one_ of the purposes of Custom. (The Lisp only gets shown if the user _asks_ for it). But it serves several _other_ purposes of Custom, such as: use as a convenient browser with possibility to conveniently edit the standard value without having to grep through the source code, visit .emacs, cut and paste and so on. Also, the possibility to conveniently manage the new value afterwards. In addition, it is a help to people who want to gradually transition from just using straightforward customizations to writing Lisp. I know of a sysadmin who does not really know Lisp who successfully manages to work that way (managed to fool me in believing he _did_ know Elisp). Sincerely, Luc.