From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CVS HEAD fails to build on OSX 10.4 (macterm.c broken?) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:23:07 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <20070906.192307.184037952.mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1189074724 18455 80.91.229.12 (6 Sep 2007 10:32:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 10:32:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: yavor@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 06 12:32:04 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1ITEeS-0003IN-LS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:31:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITEeQ-0007uW-S3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 06:31:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1ITEWg-0005gS-Sw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 06:23:55 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1ITEWd-0005ez-GA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 06:23:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITEWc-0005en-9E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 06:23:50 -0400 Original-Received: from ntp.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp ([133.82.132.2] helo=mathmail.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1ITEWV-0001ek-CM; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 06:23:43 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (church [133.82.132.36]) by mathmail.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62EF2C46; Thu, 6 Sep 2007 19:23:39 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) X-Detected-Kernel: NetBSD 3.0 (DF) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:77966 Archived-At: >>>>> On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:17:44 +0000 (UTC), Yavor Doganov said: >> GNUstep is too much for me. One of the most difficult tasks about >> the Carbon+AppKit port was to absorb the difference between >> multiple versions of Mac OS X, and adding more platforms exceeds my >> ability (I've just started to learn Cocoa and Objective-C in July). > But with Carbon+AppKit you're already on the ObjC train riding on > the Cocoa railroad. A GNUstep application runs flawlessly on > GNU/Linux and (in most cases) on all versions of MuckOS X plus all > the other platforms that GNUstep supports. So basically, developing > for GNUstep is like developing a Java program for GCJ/Classpath: it > is usable in the Free World as well as with proprietary Java > platforms. > So we may say that one prominent incarnation of the "Java Trap" is > the "Cocoa Trap". I'm a beginner of Cocoa and Objective-C so I can't judge whether it is also the case for Emacs. Anyway, one of the important feature of the Carbon+AppKit port is that it shares non-UI parts, especially the drawing part, with the Carbon port that has been tested for a long time by many users. Also, as I said, the Carbon+AppKit port is primarily a variant of the Carbon port, and therefore I think it can be included to the later versions of Emacs 22. If it also had GNUstep code, it would no longer be called as a variant. > I have to admit that I understand your hesitation, more or less. > The trouble with Emacs on GNUstep is that GNUsteppers are not > familiar with Emacs internals and Emacs developers are not familiar > with GNUstep. It is a mountain to learn when you look from both > sides. I guess a possible reason of the one-side familiarity is that both sides of people think GNUstep users can at least run any other flavors of X11 builds of Emacs seamlessly. YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp