From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Scratch buffer annoyance Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:42:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <20070717184254.37CE2300A2@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE> References: <877ipev1iv.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87lkdhqp94.fsf@red-bean.com> <20070716203244.85A0A30116@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE> <8ACF1129-2D04-4157-83F8-0F0F8928A5D2@gmail.com> Reply-To: ams@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1184697896 9597 80.91.229.12 (17 Jul 2007 18:44:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:44:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: kfogel@red-bean.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, sdl.web@gmail.com To: David Reitter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 17 20:44:54 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IAs2Y-0000Mi-4J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:44:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IAs2X-00052H-J9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:44:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IAs0h-00049S-6w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:42:59 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IAs0g-00048j-Ja for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:42:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IAs0g-00048b-3j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:42:58 -0400 Original-Received: from psilocybe.update.uu.se ([130.238.19.25]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IAs0c-0003Xi-Qw; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:42:55 -0400 Original-Received: by Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE (Postfix, from userid 30270) id 37CE2300A2; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:42:54 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: <8ACF1129-2D04-4157-83F8-0F0F8928A5D2@gmail.com> (message from David Reitter on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:28:28 +0100) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:75008 Archived-At: > Wouldn't it be smarter to make the initial splash screen the > current buffer when Emacs starts instead? It would make > sense for that to be read-only, and when one does C-x C-q, it > could for example clear it and toggle the read-only status of > the buffer (with a brief note in the initial splash screen > that one can do C-x C-q to convert it into a "scratch" > buffer). > > It is an interesting idea. What do others think? This will make Emacs even more difficult to use for new or occasional users. They would need to know a key combination just to get started. And it would be much more annoying than the current situation. That would be documented in the splash screen. Right now when a new user does anything (click the mouse, hit a key) when emacs starts up, the splash screen vanishes and you get the unwelcoming text of the scratch buffer. Using C-c C-q to make the scratch buffer writable is not required to use emacs; it is there for those who wish to have a scratch buffer. What's wrong with - automatically saving *scratch* in a place other than ~/ (where it is out of the way) via auto-save and before exiting Emacs, without any user interaction As other have pointed out, this won't work when you have multiple emacses running. - automatically restoring *scratch* from that file upon startup (i.e. making it persistent) This defeats the whole concept of *scratch* IMHO. - not offering to save it anywhere else (even though users may to C-x C-w and save it, thereby converting it to a normal, non-persistent buffer, and creating an empty *scratch* buffer automatically). This would preserve the equivalence to a real-life scratch paper that one keeps on one's desk, which will not magically disappear overnight, but which may be filed somewhere else when needed. It would be unobtrusive and solve the original problem. I disagree, and strongly. It defeats the whole concept of a scratch buffer.