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From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" <ams@gnu.org>
To: David Reitter <david.reitter@gmail.com>
Cc: kfogel@red-bean.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, sdl.web@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Scratch buffer annoyance
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:42:54 +0200 (CEST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070717184254.37CE2300A2@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8ACF1129-2D04-4157-83F8-0F0F8928A5D2@gmail.com> (message from David Reitter on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:28:28 +0100)

   >     Wouldn't it be smarter to make the initial splash screen the
   >     current buffer when Emacs starts instead?  It would make
   >     sense for that to be read-only, and when one does C-x C-q, it
   >     could for example clear it and toggle the read-only status of
   >     the buffer (with a brief note in the initial splash screen
   >     that one can do C-x C-q to convert it into a "scratch"
   >     buffer).
   >
   > It is an interesting idea.  What do others think?

   This will make Emacs even more difficult to use for new or
   occasional users. They would need to know a key combination just to
   get started.  And it would be much more annoying than the current
   situation.

That would be documented in the splash screen.  Right now when a new
user does anything (click the mouse, hit a key) when emacs starts up,
the splash screen vanishes and you get the unwelcoming text of the
scratch buffer.  Using C-c C-q to make the scratch buffer writable is
not required to use emacs; it is there for those who wish to have a
scratch buffer.

   What's wrong with

   - automatically saving *scratch* in a place other than ~/ (where it
     is out of the way) via auto-save and before exiting Emacs,
     without any user interaction

As other have pointed out, this won't work when you have multiple
emacses running.

   - automatically restoring *scratch* from that file upon startup
     (i.e.  making it persistent)

This defeats the whole concept of *scratch* IMHO.

   - not offering to save it anywhere else (even though users may to C-x  
     C-w and save it, thereby converting it to a normal, non-persistent  
     buffer, and creating an empty *scratch* buffer automatically).

   This would preserve the equivalence to a real-life scratch paper
   that one keeps on one's desk, which will not magically disappear
   overnight, but which may be filed somewhere else when needed.

   It would be unobtrusive and solve the original problem.

I disagree, and strongly.  It defeats the whole concept of a scratch
buffer.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2007-07-17 18:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 218+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-07-06  0:06 Scratch buffer annoyance Chong Yidong
2007-07-06  4:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2007-07-15 21:37 ` Leo
2007-07-15 22:19   ` David Reitter
2007-07-15 22:42     ` Zhang Wei
2007-07-15 22:52     ` Juri Linkov
2007-07-16 15:49     ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-15 22:24   ` Karl Fogel
2007-07-16 20:32     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2007-07-17 15:05       ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-17 15:28         ` David Reitter
2007-07-17 15:50           ` Tassilo Horn
2007-07-17 16:00             ` Johan Bockgård
2007-07-17 16:04             ` David Reitter
2007-07-17 16:57               ` Tassilo Horn
2007-07-17 19:37                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-07-17 22:15                   ` David Reitter
2007-07-18 14:11                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-18 15:53                     ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-07-17 18:42             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2007-07-17 19:50               ` Tassilo Horn
2007-07-17 20:01                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2007-07-17 16:02           ` David Kastrup
2007-07-17 16:10             ` David Reitter
2007-07-18 20:53             ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-18 21:28               ` David Kastrup
2007-07-19 21:20                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-17 18:42           ` Alfred M. Szmidt [this message]
2007-07-17 18:55             ` David Kastrup
2007-07-17 20:31               ` Mathias Dahl
2007-07-17 21:56               ` Jason Rumney
2007-07-18  0:35                 ` Johan Bockgård
2007-07-17 19:59             ` Tassilo Horn
2007-07-17 20:28               ` Andreas Schwab
2007-07-18  9:22                 ` Jan Djärv
2007-07-18 10:23                   ` Tassilo Horn
2007-07-18 10:56                     ` Jan Djärv
2007-07-18 20:53               ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-18 20:53             ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-18 14:11           ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-17 16:36         ` Chong Yidong
2007-07-18 20:53           ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-17 17:48         ` Drew Adams
2007-07-18 20:29           ` Juri Linkov
2007-07-19  0:00             ` Drew Adams
2007-07-19 14:25             ` Mathias Dahl
2007-07-19 14:45               ` David Kastrup
2007-07-19 15:44               ` Peter Lee
2007-07-20 13:42                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-20 21:01                   ` Drew Adams
2007-07-21  8:54                     ` Mathias Dahl
2007-07-21  9:35                       ` David Kastrup
2007-07-21  9:48                         ` David Kastrup
2007-07-21 15:14                           ` Drew Adams
2007-07-21 15:46                             ` David Kastrup
2007-07-22 10:05                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-22 10:40                                 ` David Kastrup
2007-07-23  4:29                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-22  1:49                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-22 13:26                               ` Drew Adams
2007-07-23  4:28                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-21 18:07                   ` Juri Linkov
2007-07-23  4:28                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-23 21:45                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-07-24 16:45                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-25  0:12                           ` Juri Linkov
2007-07-25  5:24                             ` David Kastrup
2007-07-27 21:20                               ` Juri Linkov
2007-07-27 21:16                             ` Juri Linkov
2007-07-29  2:23                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-29  9:18                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-07-29  9:46                                   ` David Kastrup
2007-07-29 14:28                                     ` Drew Adams
2007-07-30 16:44                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-31  8:51                                   ` Miles Bader
2007-07-31 13:09                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2007-07-31 14:29                                       ` David Kastrup
2007-07-31 20:22                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-01  4:34                                       ` Miles Bader
2007-08-01  4:35                                       ` Miles Bader
2007-08-01  5:14                                       ` Drew Adams
2007-08-01  5:55                                         ` David Kastrup
2007-08-01  6:18                                           ` Drew Adams
2007-08-01  7:46                                             ` David Kastrup
2007-08-01 14:32                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-08-01  8:34                                         ` Jason Rumney
2007-08-01 14:32                                           ` Drew Adams
2007-08-01 15:41                                             ` Andreas Schwab
2007-08-01 16:53                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-08-01 17:19                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2007-08-01 17:54                                                   ` Drew Adams
2007-07-31  8:54                                   ` Miles Bader
2007-07-31 13:09                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2007-07-31 14:29                                   ` Andreas Schwab
2007-07-31 14:42                                     ` David Kastrup
2007-08-01 16:45                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-01 17:05                                         ` Drew Adams
2007-08-01 18:09                                           ` David Kastrup
2007-08-01 18:29                                             ` Drew Adams
2007-08-01 19:43                                               ` David Kastrup
2007-08-01 19:54                                                 ` Davis Herring
2007-08-01 21:09                                                   ` David Kastrup
2007-08-01 23:15                                                     ` Miles Bader
2007-08-01 23:21                                                       ` Davis Herring
2007-08-02  0:45                                                         ` Miles Bader
2007-08-02 23:42                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-03 18:16                                                         ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-03 22:02                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-04  7:02                                                             ` David Kastrup
2007-08-05  3:05                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-05  6:57                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2007-08-05 20:54                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-05 16:59                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-06 14:19                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-06 14:35                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2007-08-07  1:22                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-07  6:13                                                                         ` David Kastrup
2007-08-07 20:11                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-07 20:57                                                                             ` David Kastrup
2007-08-09  0:07                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-09 19:54                                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-09 22:24                                                                                   ` Andreas Schwab
2007-08-11  5:05                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-19 23:16                                                                                     ` buffer-auto-mode-alist (was: Scratch buffer annoyance) Juri Linkov
2007-08-20 18:31                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-08 22:59                                                                     ` Scratch buffer annoyance Juri Linkov
2007-08-08 23:53                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2007-08-09 19:47                                                                         ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-09 20:09                                                                           ` David Kastrup
2007-08-11  5:05                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-12 20:45                                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-12 23:20                                                                               ` Johan Bockgård
2007-08-13  5:00                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-13  5:57                                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2007-08-14  0:28                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-15 23:32                                                                                     ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-16  0:59                                                                                       ` Glenn Morris
2007-08-16 20:11                                                                                         ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-17  4:50                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-17 22:35                                                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-19  0:44                                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-19 14:45                                                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-19 22:30                                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-17 23:32                                                                                             ` Glenn Morris
2007-08-19 14:50                                                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-19 22:30                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-19 23:21                                                                                                   ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-20 18:31                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-20 23:28                                                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-21  9:07                                                                                                         ` Mathias Dahl
2007-08-21 23:23                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-23  0:14                                                                                                           ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-23 20:58                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-25 14:28                                                                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-25 17:06                                                                                                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2007-08-25 19:44                                                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2007-08-25 19:53                                                                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2007-08-25 20:38                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2007-08-25 23:33                                                                                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-08-26  5:33                                                                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2007-08-26 14:56                                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-26 23:45                                                                                                                   ` Juri Linkov
     [not found]                                                                                                                     ` <E1IPj9w-0003bw-4e@fencepost.gnu.org>
2007-09-02 21:01                                                                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-03 18:25                                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-03 23:46                                                                                                                           ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-04 16:45                                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-04 22:57                                                                                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-05 20:02                                                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-06 14:54                                                                                                                                   ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-07  6:32                                                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-07  8:57                                                                                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-08  7:00                                                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-07  6:32                                                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-07  8:55                                                                                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-08  7:00                                                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-07  6:32                                                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-07  8:56                                                                                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-07 17:56                                                                                                                                         ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-07 22:54                                                                                                                                           ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-08 19:47                                                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-09 12:35                                                                                                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-09 20:06                                                                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-07  6:32                                                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-09 12:36                                                                                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-09 20:06                                                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-07  6:32                                                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-19 15:30                                                                                               ` Mathias Dahl
2007-08-19 17:48                                                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-20 15:17                                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-19 22:30                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-19 23:21                                                                                                   ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-20 18:31                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-20 23:29                                                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-20  2:29                                                                                                   ` Glenn Morris
2007-08-20  8:13                                                                                                     ` Mathias Dahl
2007-08-20 18:30                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-20 23:28                                                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-21 23:23                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-16  2:42                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-16 20:12                                                                                         ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-17  4:50                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-19 14:55                                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-19 22:30                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-08-13 23:30                                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-08-02 15:09                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2007-08-02 23:42                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-19 18:28             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2007-07-21 17:13             ` Dieter Wilhelm
2007-07-21 18:12               ` Juri Linkov
2007-07-21 18:52                 ` Drew Adams
2007-07-21 19:24                   ` David Kastrup
2007-07-22 18:37                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-22 19:09                       ` David Kastrup
2007-07-22 21:43                         ` Juri Linkov
2007-07-23 18:07                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-22 19:41                   ` Drew Adams
2007-07-22 19:58                     ` David Kastrup
2007-07-18 20:53           ` Richard Stallman

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