From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ryan Yeske Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CVS is the `released version' Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 15:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20070514223609.920A014267@owie.lan> References: <2cd46e7f0705101124r72000f78xdf05d18ca815ca57@mail.gmail.com> <17991.47259.210100.801472@localhost.localdomain> <864pmfzz3c.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <17992.31731.577467.566308@localhost.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1179182576 30691 80.91.229.12 (14 May 2007 22:42:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 22:42:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: tromey@redhat.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 15 00:42:55 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HnjFk-0005u7-Uv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 May 2007 00:42:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnjNY-00067N-Jd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 18:50:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HnjN8-0005j4-5M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 18:50:30 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HnjN6-0005iI-Cf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 18:50:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnjN6-0005iB-5B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 18:50:28 -0400 Original-Received: from shawmail.shawcable.com ([64.59.128.220] helo=bpd2mo2no.prod.shawcable.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HnjFF-0000HF-Pk; Mon, 14 May 2007 18:42:21 -0400 Original-Received: from bpd2mi6no.prod.shawcable.com (bpd2mi6no-qfe3.prod.shawcable.com [10.0.184.161]) by bpd2mo2no.prod.shawcable.com (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JI1002X0Z2MVR60@bpd2mo2no.prod.shawcable.com>; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:42:22 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from mail.emmett.ca ([68.146.204.233]) by bpd2mi6no.prod.shawcable.com (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JI100GZ5Z4E0Z20@bpd2mi6no.prod.shawcable.com>; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:43:26 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.emmett.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3312D417A9; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from mail.emmett.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (sputnik.emmett.ca [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14022-03; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from owie.lan (unknown [10.18.1.1]) by mail.emmett.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437634179C; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: by owie.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 920A014267; Mon, 14 May 2007 15:36:09 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new (clamav) at mail.emmett.ca X-detected-kernel: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:71081 Archived-At: There are problems with this that no package system can ever solve: a package that is released asynchronously from Emacs runs a high risk to become broken by changes in Emacs. Packages that are released together with Emacs are generally coherent with the Emacs core, by contrast. As long as this is a real problem (and I personally don't see how it can be solved, given the high rate of changes in core code), this ``biggest benefit'' is actually a myth, IMHO. I have run emacs-w3m and bbdb across different emacs versions without problems. If changes in emacs do result in breakage in a package, then updating installed packages can be done much more easily than manually downloading and reinstalling updated packages. Of course packages that are released together with emacs may not have this problem, but we are talking about making a convenient way to deliver third party packages to users. Perhaps then, this is actually outside the scope of emacs-devel@, as a package system like the one we have been discussing doesn't need even need to be a part of emacs. Ryan