From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: `woman' can't be used outside emacs? Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 15:33:40 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <20061224.153340.15248109.tcross@rapttech.com.au> References: <87psadxieu.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> <874prmeqnp.fsf@hans.local.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dough.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1166939304 22794 80.91.229.10 (24 Dec 2006 05:48:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 05:48:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 24 06:48:22 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by dough.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1GyMDd-0001eX-Oo for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 06:48:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GyMDd-0008CR-Br for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 00:48:21 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GyL3W-00084n-29 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2006 23:33:50 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GyL3U-000831-Nc for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2006 23:33:49 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GyL3U-00082w-L0 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2006 23:33:48 -0500 Original-Received: from [203.16.214.141] (helo=ipmail02.adl2.internode.on.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GyL3T-00030U-Uz for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2006 23:33:48 -0500 Original-Received: from ppp43-48.lns2.syd6.internode.on.net (HELO localhost) ([59.167.43.48]) by ipmail02.adl2.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 24 Dec 2006 15:03:41 +1030 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.12,208,1165152600"; d="scan'208"; a="64181840:sNHT22337931" Original-To: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de In-Reply-To: <874prmeqnp.fsf@hans.local.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.1.52 on Emacs 22.0.92 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 00:48:07 -0500 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:39883 Archived-At: From: Dieter Wilhelm Subject: Re: `woman' can't be used outside emacs? Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 13:35:22 +0100 > > > > The other thing is that once you get to know elisp, extending or > > changing emacs' functionality is so easy, its just simpler to do it in > > emacs than actually develop something else - especially as often the > > most boring and time consuming part of creating a new app or bit of > > functionality is the interface and with emacs, most of this is already > > done. I even know people that use emacs as their window manager under > > X - instead of an exec fvwm (or whatever) in their .xsession file, > > I'd love doing this but my font size of the virtual consoles is too > big. > Possibly I misunderstand your point, but under X, you can set the font size either through xrdb or the emacs command line or through customize. Under the virtual consoles on Linux, you can reduce the font size as well - you don't have the same choices as under X, but you can change it so that instead of an 80x25 display, you can have a (I think it is) 180x32. At one stage Redhat Linux actually had this as the default. From memory, you do this via an option in lilo (not sure what the procedure is with other boot loaders like grub). > > they have an exec emacs. As a blind user, I use a package called > > emacspeak, which provides sophisticated speech feedback that allows me > > Are you completely blind? So that the emails must be read for you by > emacsspeak? Then the usual way of "citing" (including snippets of > older mails) in mailing lists must be very disturbing for your hearing > experience. How are you dealing with this and quotations and acronyms > and capitalization and ...? > I'm not completely blind - hey estimate I have around 1%, but that is a guess really as my sight is poor enough to make determining how good it is nearly impossible. I cannot read books or the computer screen, but I can see distorted colour. To some extent, its a bit like looking through frosted glass (like you find in bathrooms etc). One of the features of emacspeak which makes it stand out from commercial screen readers is that it has a different philosophy. Rather than just providing "dumb" speech feedback, emacspeak uses an approach called voice-lock, which is like font-lock, but instead of using different colours, it uses different voices or changes the tone/pitch of a voice to provide more information. For example, cited text will be spoken in a different voice, capital letters at the beginning of a word causes the word to be spoken in a higher pitch, words that are all capitals are spelt out (as they are often an acronym) etc. You can set the system to ignore punctuation, speak some punctuation or speak all punctuation - so, if I'm reading text, I might set it to no punctuation or perhaps some punctuation. If I'm programming, I will set it to speak all punctuation. In addition to using different voices, emacspeak also uses auditory icons - a blank line causes a specific tone to be generated, opening a new window causes another sound to be played, etc. I also take advantage of features in programs like gnus which will allow me to "fold" cited text, so that the buffer is narrowed just to the new text etc. At the moment, I'm trying out new mail/news programs. This message is the first one I have posted with the 'mew' mail/news reader for emacs. I normally use VM, but lately, I'm getting problems with VMs ability to handle some MIME types - in particular, attachments sent from MACs using apple mail. However, I have to do a fair amount of work before mew will give me adequate speech feedback. Essentially, this involves adding advised functions with defadvice that adds speech feedback to the app. Tim