From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:44:18 +0100 Message-ID: <20060717094418.GC1234@muc.de> References: <20060715221432.GA1252@muc.de> <20060716090816.GA1167@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153127449 24974 80.91.229.2 (17 Jul 2006 09:10:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:10:49 +0000 (UTC) Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 17 11:10:48 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2P7Z-0007ue-Gm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:10:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2P7Z-0007d4-0p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:10:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2P6O-00075R-U7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:09:20 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2P6N-00074Y-VE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:09:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2P6N-00074S-RC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:09:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [193.149.48.1] (helo=mail.muc.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1G2P90-0003wp-Oq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:12:03 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 42013 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2006 09:09:17 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (HELO localhost.localdomain) (Debian-exim@193.149.49.134) by mail.muc.de with SMTP; 17 Jul 2006 09:09:17 -0000 Original-Received: from acm by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.50) id 1G2PeE-0000gI-9y; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:44:18 +0100 Original-To: Richard Stallman Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57167 Archived-At: Morning, Richard! On Sun, Jul 16, 2006 at 09:40:57PM -0400, Richard Stallman wrote: > Well, there are about 100 people on the Emacs project list, and 3 > have taken exception to your m[o]usings. Even assuming the other > ~97, none of whom has yet voiced an opinion on the matter, are > confirmed habitual mousers, that leaves 3% of users as mouse > haters. > I am a mouse-disliker, but I am also an experienced Emacs user and I > don't need to use the tutorial to learn how. > I am sure there are other experienced Emacs users that dislike the > mouse, but the question is about beginners. Isn't it clear that nearly > all beginners use the mouse? Yes, but surely not all. Might it still be that in poorer countries there are newbies with PCs of insufficient power to support X? There are surely disabled people who cannot use a mouse without severe difficulty. As well as lots of people who don't like using mice (at least 4 of whom contribute to Emacs ;-) [Could it perhaps be that Emacs is a magnet for mouse-dislikers?] I think it would be bad in an Emacs tutorial to create an impression that a mouse was needed. Separating out the description of `n' and `p' to an appendix might well do this. -- Alan.