From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bug in Custom Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 00:04:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <200607010504.k6154EI0015447@jane.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200607010014.k610E6WN015030@jane.dms.auburn.edu> <873bdmroee.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1151730291 931 80.91.229.2 (1 Jul 2006 05:04:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 05:04:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: abraham@dina.kvl.dk, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 01 07:04:49 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FwXew-000142-7P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2006 07:04:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FwXev-0006Ux-Pf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2006 01:04:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FwXef-0006Sw-Mz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2006 01:04:29 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FwXed-0006QZ-IE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2006 01:04:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FwXed-0006QR-Em for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2006 01:04:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FwXrY-0002r5-Qm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2006 01:17:49 -0400 Original-Received: from jane.dms.auburn.edu (jane.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.201]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k6154PCO023829; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 00:04:25 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from jane.dms.auburn.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jane.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6154Fip015450; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 00:04:15 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by jane.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/Submit) id k6154EI0015447; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 00:04:14 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: jane.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: cyd@stupidchicken.com In-reply-to: <873bdmroee.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (message from Chong Yidong on Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:32:09 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:56343 Archived-At: Chong Yidong wrote: As I explained before, it was Richard who, some time last year, decided that disabling Custom themes will bring back old values set outside of Customize; maybe you missed this explanation (or maybe you did not even read it). No, I _did_ read that. However, this does not mean that Richard also decided that a consequence of that decision, the bug I reported (of which I do not know whether you still consider it a feature), made sense. My best guess is that Richard did not realize that his decision had this consequence. When _new_ evidence emerges that a decision was bad, one has to be willing to reconsider that decision. The decision had bad consequences when applied to the user theme (the bug I reported). The consequences are bad for other Themes for the same reasons. As I already mentioned in my previous message, I believe that it would be better if Themes did not override rogue values. They do not override values set by the user through Custom either. Setting values through Custom or outside Custom is a matter of what is most convenient at the time and _not_ a statement of how important the value is or how "sticky" it should be. Custom users who see that Themes do not override values set by Custom would be very surprised if they did override values the user set outside Custom. Many users will not even remember whether the values they have set were last set using Custom or outside Custom. Also even when they remember how they set them (menubar, set-variable), they might not even know whether that counts as set through Custom or not. Sincerely, Luc.