From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ifinfo vs ifnottex Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 22:32:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <200605190332.k4J3WmQT012228@jane.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200605182029.k4IKTUZ13053@f7.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1148009663 11712 80.91.229.2 (19 May 2006 03:34:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 03:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 19 05:34:21 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fgvkj-0000dw-Dq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 May 2006 05:34:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fgvki-00089U-Ru for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 May 2006 23:34:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FgvkY-00089O-KL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 May 2006 23:34:02 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FgvkY-000897-0Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 May 2006 23:34:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FgvkX-000893-Tl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 May 2006 23:34:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Fgvnl-0006xj-6v; Thu, 18 May 2006 23:37:21 -0400 Original-Received: from jane.dms.auburn.edu (jane.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.201]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k4J3XxoZ022746; Thu, 18 May 2006 22:33:59 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from jane.dms.auburn.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jane.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4J3WmNh012231; Thu, 18 May 2006 22:32:48 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by jane.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/Submit) id k4J3WmQT012228; Thu, 18 May 2006 22:32:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: jane.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: karl@freefriends.org In-reply-to: <200605182029.k4IKTUZ13053@f7.net> (karl@freefriends.org) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:54762 Archived-At: This concerns some @ifinfo-> @ifnottex changes I proposed. Richard has already asked me to install these changes, but I will wait till this remaining issue is resolved. I have the impression that my changes are clearly the right thing for info and HTML and, as one should be able to use XML to read and display .info files, most of what is right for info should be right for XML as well. _If_ one should also be able to use docbook to read .info files, then I believe that this pretty much settles the issue, by the same argument as for XML. I have the impression that after my changes, the docbook output will be in acceptable form. If this is good enough, then this settles the issue, as treating docbook separately will make things more complex. If we want the docbook output to look as perfect as possible, assuming that it should look more like Tex than like any of the other outputs, then not only my changes, but all other occurrences of @tex vs @ifnottex in the Emacs and Elisp manual might have to be reconsidered. (That is a _lot_ more occurrences than just my proposed changes and hence quite some work.) If we want the plain text output to look as close as possible to perfect too, rather than just acceptable, even more complexity and changes are needed. There are essentially five types of situations in my patches where this question arises, all listed below, *but* there are _many_ additional types of situations, some more complex, in other places. 1. The "@unnumberedsec" and "@heading" vs "@center" issue in the GPL doc. (See my patches to gpl.texi.) Richard has already asked me to install this, but I will wait to allow for counterarguments concerning docbook. The current @iftex vs @ifinfo is clearly wrong as _nothing_ gets output in any other format except plain text. 2. One single instance where my changes might not be really the best thing for plain text (but does that matter a lot?) and maybe not for docbook: If you are going to write actual Emacs Lisp programs that go beyond minor customization, you should read the @cite{Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}. @ifinfo @xref{Top, Emacs Lisp, Emacs Lisp, elisp, the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}. @end ifinfo 3. Situations like: @ifinfo (@pxref{Tab Stops}), @end ifinfo @iftex (see next section), @end iftex Again, we could try to be more perfect here for plain text and maybe docbook by making them go with Tex. Worth the trouble? 4. Situations like: This section describes the commands to check the spelling of a single word or of a portion of a buffer. These commands work with the spelling checker programs Aspell and Ispell, which are not part of Emacs. @ifinfo @xref{Top, Aspell,, aspell, The Aspell Manual}. @end ifinfo I guess the @ifinfo is there to save place in the _published_ Emacs manual. The reference is appropriate for plain text and docbook. 5. Situations like: @iftex mode (@pxref{TeX Mode}). @end iftex @ifinfo mode. @end ifinfo I do not understand this one and similar ones at all. Why is there a reference in the one situation where space is at a premium and none in all other situations? (This would remain true even after my changes. But after my changes "mode." will no longer be missing in many formats.) Sincerely, Luc.