From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Visual cleanup for customize buffers Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:59:16 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200601151959.k0FJxGn04672@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200601122345.k0CNjx114407@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200601131418.k0DEIld23354@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <43C9642E.3050301@student.lu.se> <200601142132.k0ELWUi21167@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <43C9717C.4020900@student.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1137355365 1747 80.91.229.2 (15 Jan 2006 20:02:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:02:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 15 21:02:41 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EyE5H-0004wQ-9C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:02:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EyE7W-0006zZ-BA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:04:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EyE7N-0006zT-2f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:04:49 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EyE7L-0006zF-K0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:04:48 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EyE7L-0006zC-GN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:04:47 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EyEAZ-0002wu-HX; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:08:07 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0FK2AhF014769; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:02:10 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id k0FJxGn04672; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:59:16 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: storm@cua.dk In-reply-to: (storm@cua.dk) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.1 (manatee.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.104]); Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:02:10 -0600 (CST) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:49140 Archived-At: Kim Storm wrote: Whatever the reason for the "feature", it is IMHO completely broken as a user interface. (The "feature" being that the whole buffer buttons ignore hidden items.) As I pointed out before, this is too dangerous to mess with before the release, because Custom internals rely too heavily on it, as well as for some other reasons. After the release, this has to be considered in conjunction with other possible changes which might completely change the problem, or even make it irrelevant. I do not see what the purpose of continuing to discuss this _right now_ is. What is easy and safe to do right now is to better inform people that these buttons do not operate on groups, hidden options or options changed outside Custom, by saying that in the text above these buttons, as I proposed earlier. Sincerely, Luc.