From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Visual cleanup for customize buffers Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:05:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200601142305.k0EN5Nl22098@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1137280133 30002 80.91.229.2 (14 Jan 2006 23:08:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:08:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, storm@cua.dk Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 15 00:08:50 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ExuVi-0002W4-LU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:08:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ExuXv-0002Gv-AH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:10:55 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1ExuXj-0002Gf-Bc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:10:43 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1ExuXg-0002GJ-MX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:10:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ExuXg-0002GG-K2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:10:40 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Exuau-0003fS-8w; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:14:00 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0EN8FFZ007052; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:08:15 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id k0EN5Nl22098; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:05:23 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-reply-to: (rms@gnu.org) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.1 (manatee.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.104]); Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:08:15 -0600 (CST) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:49105 Archived-At: - Don't show the "Hide value" button for trivial values which fit on one line initially. I don't see ANY reason why a user would click on that button to, say, hide a boolean or numeric value. That seems ok to me, provided the problem Luc is concerned about is not a real problem. Now I have some additional concerns which are definitely real problems. This is not the type of change that should be attempted shortly (one can always hope) before a release and maybe even never. It might look small and harmless at first view but it definitely is not. I installed Kim's two patches. Somehow, after that _all_ options started out hidden. I believe that _must_ be due to the fact that I did something wrong. However, I believe that the following bug is definitely real and not due to some bad application of patches (I guessed this bug would occur from reading the code). Evaluate: (defcustom long-var "1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111" "Great doc." :group 'help-at-pt :type 'string) Do `M-x customize-group RET help-at-pt'. With or without Kim's patch this option starts out hidden. Without Kim's patch, if I unhide it, I can hide it again, as I clearly should be able to do. With Kim's patch, there is no button to hide it. Kim uses a different criterion for putting in a Show/Hide button than Custom does. This obviously leads to bugs. Even if Kim somehow managed to use exactly the same criteria as Custom does (which seem to be not completely trivial and spread out over the code), we would keep the following two problems (as well as others): 1. The criteria Custom uses are heuristic and occasionally may show very long values that the user _definitely_ may want to hide. 2. There would be the continuous danger of the two conditions getting out of sync at any moment whatsoever, leading to very annoying bugs. Sincerely, Luc.