From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Visual cleanup for customize buffers Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:32:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200601142132.k0ELWUi21167@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200601122345.k0CNjx114407@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200601131418.k0DEIld23354@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <43C9642E.3050301@student.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1137274573 14058 80.91.229.2 (14 Jan 2006 21:36:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: storm@cua.dk, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 14 22:36:08 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ext4B-0002L3-Dw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:36:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ext6N-0000Xe-OK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:38:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ext68-0000WV-JA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:38:08 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ext67-0000Vh-It for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:38:07 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ext67-0000Vd-78 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:38:07 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ext92-00063l-DB; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:41:08 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0ELZM25006534; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:35:22 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id k0ELWUi21167; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:32:30 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se In-reply-to: <43C9642E.3050301@student.lu.se> (message from Lennart Borgman on Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:50:54 +0100) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.1 (manatee.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.104]); Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:35:22 -0600 (CST) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:49100 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman wrote: Would it perhaps be easy to make it impossible to hide a value that has been changed and not set in the current custom buffer? That could perhaps be a bit less confusing. If I understand correctly, it is already supposed to be impossible right now. You should get the minibuffer message: "There are unset changes". Was there some case where this failed for you? So normally, you will never inadvertently fail to Set or Save a value that you have edited, if you use the whole buffer "Set for Current Session" or "Save for Future Sessions" buttons. You will never inadvertently keep edits you did not want to keep if you use the whole buffer "Undo Edits" button. What you can do however, is, for instance, set a value for the current session, and then hide it. Then edit other options and save those for future sessions. The one you had only set for the current session will not be saved. Also, if you have a saved value for an option, and hide it before choosing "Erase Customization", that saved value will not be erased. According to Kim's theory, if I understand it correctly, people accustomed to the "Apply-OK-Cancel" type interface would never use anything but the whole buffer "Save for Future Sessions", "Undo Edits" (and "Finish") buttons. In that case, the fact that these buttons will not work on hidden items will _never_ inconvenience them, because there will be no hidden edited items. Note that in the many years that this feature existed (as long as Custom has been part of Emacs), there was not exactly a flood of complaints by people having been surprised or inconvenienced by it. I know of none (before yesterday). Complaints only started after I pointed the feature out, from people who did not know it existed, and hence probably had never been affected by the feature either. Sincerely, Luc.