From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Reset buttons in Customize Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:32:47 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200601050032.k050Wle24911@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200512210254.jBL2sj814876@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <87d5jqrvuo.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200512212219.jBLMJ3R29494@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <87lkydx021.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200512220351.jBM3pvX02615@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <8764phpyvf.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200512230029.jBN0TgT16314@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <1135392570.183714.29626.nullmailer@Update.UU.SE> <200512250324.jBP3OdM16529@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200601022026.k02KQQh21528@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <877j9fg9j6.fsf_-_@stupidchicken.com> <200601042025.k04KP6R22082@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <87wthfptu5.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1136421715 22617 80.91.229.2 (5 Jan 2006 00:41:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 00:41:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ams@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 05 01:41:52 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EuJCG-0001PK-KA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 01:41:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EuJDy-0006DQ-21 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:43:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EuJ7p-0005AV-EJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:37:05 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EuJ7o-00059k-A0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:37:04 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EuJ7n-00059U-TI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:37:03 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EuJ9G-0000y4-5c; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:38:34 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k050ZF9A017070; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:35:15 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id k050Wle24911; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:32:47 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: cyd@stupidchicken.com In-reply-to: <87wthfptu5.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (message from Chong Yidong on Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:27:14 -0500) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.1 (manatee.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.104]); Wed, 04 Jan 2006 18:35:15 -0600 (CST) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:48727 Archived-At: Chong Yidong wrote: If I'm honest, it was to annoy you. It's now back in the old order ;-) But there are still problems, which are regressions. You changed "Reset to current" to "Reset to current value" and "Reset to saved" to "Reset to saved value". This just increases the confusion you complained about. Compared to "Reset to current", "Reset to current value" _increases_ the impression that some value is going to be changed, whereas all that happens is that the user's edits are reverted. I believe that any confusion is caused by the misleading symmetry with "Reset to current" and "Reset to Saved" (which your changes enhanced rather than corrected). That is exactly why I proposed to rename "Reset to Current" to "Revert Edits" or similar. You changed "Use backup value" to "Reset to backup value". This implies that some change is going to be completely reverted, like the other Reset operations do. This is not the case. If the saved value is 1 and you change the saved value to 2, then "Reset to backup value" is going to reset the current value to 1, but the saved value is still 2. So if this is going to be something different from "Use backup value", it should be "Set to backup value". The "Re" in "Reset" is confusing. That it partially reverts to a previous value is already implicit in "backup". "Show value widget" is completely cryptic. It took me a long time to figure out that this was what was originally called "Do not show as Lisp expression". You changed "Show initial Lisp expression" to "Show Lisp expression". This suggest that the _current_ value will be shown as Lisp expression. Actually the saved (or standard) value gets shown as a Lisp expression. (Hence the "initial", which you erased). Maybe "saved" would be clearer than "initial". Changing the latter two to what they were would be a big improvement over your changes, but maybe it might be better to change "Do not show as Lisp expression" to "Show current value" (which is exactly what it does): it shows the _current_ value, rather than the saved (or standard), and it shows the current _value_, rather than expression. Summary: After your changes Before your changes Suggested alternatives ------------------- ------------------- ---------------------- Reset to current value Reset to current Discard Edits Undo Edits Revert Edits Reset to backup value Use backup value Set to backup value Show value widget Don't show as Lisp expression Show current value Show Lisp expression Show initial Lisp expression Show saved Lisp expression Sincerely, Luc.