From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: fancy-splash-screen customize group... Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 09:38:45 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200512081538.jB8FcjG06883@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200512072349.jB7Nn5fB031485@brains.moreideas.ca> <878xuwwdp4.fsf@jurta.org> <200512080321.jB83LZv04680@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <4397F30F.6060309@student.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1134063920 7513 80.91.229.2 (8 Dec 2005 17:45:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:45:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: juri@jurta.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 08 18:45:15 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EkPpF-00056Y-IQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 18:45:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EkPpX-0005BG-Ps for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:45:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EkNsn-00051h-K5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:40:34 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EkNsk-0004zH-Pr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:40:31 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EkNsi-0004y0-SD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:40:29 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EkNtl-00014f-4T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:41:33 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with ESMTP id jB8Fe8Lg005395; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 09:40:08 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id jB8FcjG06883; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 09:38:45 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se In-reply-to: <4397F30F.6060309@student.lu.se> (message from Lennart Borgman on Thu, 08 Dec 2005 09:47:11 +0100) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.1 (manatee.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.104]); Thu, 08 Dec 2005 09:40:09 -0600 (CST) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:47231 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman wrote: I always use the top buttons for changing things. Though I seldom use customize-group to change anything. Sorry, I somehow forgot to say that the problems I pointed out apply to the whole buffer buttons in _group_ buffers (actually, most of them apply to any Custom buffer with more than one option). In as far as I know they are safe to use in buffers with an individual option or face and I use them myself in such buffers. The fact that three out of the five buttons were no-ops during most of their existence and that nobody noticed applies to _group_ buffers. The fact that I am afraid that the whole buffer buttons could all of a sudden start recursively descending into subgroups by somebody making some apparently unrelated change for completely unrelated reasons applies to all buffers that can contain subgroups, that is, not only group buffers, but also buffers you get with, for instance, customize-apropos. May I then suggest that we start using these buttons and Custom in general? I have already done so for quite a while. I do use Custom extensively, but I never use the whole buffer buttons, _except_ in single option buffers. Since you essentially only use Custom in such buffers, you are actually in the same situation that I am, for different reasons. Though I have actually (carefully, I hope) fixed a bug in them on one occasion, I do not like to spend a lot of time studying and debugging these whole buffer buttons in non-single option buffers, since I believe that they are bad design in non-single option buffers to begin with. Though I seldom use customize-group to change anything. I use it however to get an overview over options (though the current layout is not very good for that). Have you ever used the "intended" way to find options, customize-browse at all? If you only use customize-{face,variable,group} or `M-x customize', then _obviously_ things are difficult to find. Sincerely, Luc.