From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Greg Novak Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Emacs becoming Word? Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:08:04 -0800 Message-ID: <20050327010804.GA32474@dionysus.ucolick.org> References: <01c53229$Blat.v2.4$f7086e60@zahav.net.il> <01c53202$Blat.v2.4$fc3ff320@zahav.net.il> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1111885780 17763 80.91.229.2 (27 Mar 2005 01:09:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 01:09:40 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 27 03:09:38 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DFMHP-0006sK-H0 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 03:09:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DFMXC-0003Py-Jr for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:25:46 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DFMWi-0003Mc-UT for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:25:17 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DFMWe-0003Jf-2h for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:25:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DFMWc-0003IZ-3r for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:25:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [128.114.22.17] (helo=dionysus.ucolick.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1DFMG7-0005xp-3r for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:08:07 -0500 Original-Received: from dionysus.ucolick.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by dionysus.ucolick.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j2R184XO032500 for ; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:08:04 -0800 Original-Received: (from novak@localhost) by dionysus.ucolick.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id j2R184uF032499 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:08:04 -0800 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <01c53229$Blat.v2.4$f7086e60@zahav.net.il> <01c53202$Blat.v2.4$fc3ff320@zahav.net.il> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:25206 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:25206 * Eli Zaretskii wrote: > This is off by default, so you should look into your customizations > and find what turns it on. > ... > This feature is off by default as well. Something in your .emacs > turns it on. > ... > So I think the response was appropriate, and precisely what he > needed to hear, since he should look for the reasons in his own > customizations. This is the fourth time in this thread that I've been told that I must have turned on the features myself. This is in direct conflict with the information I provided in the original post. The strange behavior started after a version upgrade, _not_ after hacking around in my .emacs file, fooling with any customization options, or anything. I object to being told that I must be mistaken about the basic facts of what happened in my office yesterday. I'm prepared to guarantee that my .emacs didn't change one bit in between the time emacs was behaving "normally" and the time when it started exhibiting "strange" behavior. * Thomas A. Horsley wrote: > Perhaps not his own customizations: I know (from my experience beating them > into submission) that the redhat fedora distribution and the suse > distribution both do wacky stuff to emacs. I was able to fix redhat with my > .emacs file once I discovered their annoying site-lisp/default.el file, but It is now clear that this is almost certainly what happened, given the several posts telling me that I must be suffering from amnesia since I could only have edited my .emacs file and turned on the features myself. Shame on me for changing more than one thing at once; initially, emacs itself seemed like the most obvious cause of my trouble, but now it's clear that it's probably the packager who's to blame. > As far as new features being on by default goes, I can understand why > leaving them on might be a good idea. If I hate them it gives me an > incentive to read up on them to figure out how to turn them off, and if I > like them, I'd probably never see them unless they were on by default, True, but I think a good compromise would be Joe Corneli's idea in the post he referenced where new features would be "tentatively" turned on and would explain what they're doing, perhaps in the minibuffer, when they do something that could be considered "strange." This could also include instructions about how to turn the behavior off.