From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Customize buttons that change user's custom fileshouldaskforconfirmation Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:37:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200502160037.j1G0bEX11788@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <00e301c509c1$9c761690$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1108516465 11595 80.91.229.2 (16 Feb 2005 01:14:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:14:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: abraham@dina.kvl.dk, lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, storm@cua.dk, snogglethorpe@gmail.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, miles@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 16 02:14:24 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D1DkE-0001aE-2s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:13:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D1E04-0001f4-DC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:29:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D1Dvn-0008Pz-KL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:24:44 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D1Dvj-0008O5-6b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:24:41 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D1Dvh-0008Lp-Px for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:24:38 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D1DKz-0001uo-EJ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:46:41 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1G0d49N012528; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:39:04 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id j1G0bEX11788; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:37:15 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:18:56 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:33516 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:33516 Richard Stallman wrote: The concept of "exiting" does not make sense for a Custom buffer, but there could be a buffer-wide Activate command, "Put this in effect", which combines Set and Save. If that were the only way to make values take effect, it would be a lot simpler than the current Custom facility. In addition to Activate, there would be Cancel and Standard Values. And perhaps What's Changed, which says what would change if you use Activate right now. What do people think of the idea? I like the _current_ Custom interface. I believe that its _general design_, including the button structure, is hard to improve on. I would leave it alone. Of course, there are various bugs that need to be fixed and various _details_ that can be improved. Most of the more serious problems that Custom suffers from, several of which I have pointed out, result from the fact that Custom makes certain assumptions for its correct functioning that Emacs does not adhere to (or does currently not adhere to). The two main ones are: 1. The value given in the defcustom is the standard Emacs default value as seen in `emacs -q'. I believe that for this one, we agreed that we would make sure that Emacs adhered much better to this than it currently does, ideally completely. We already started implementing this, although there still is much to do. 2. A variable defined by defcustom is reserved for the user. Code never messes with it. If code needs to add stuff to hooks or listvars, split those hooks or listvars into two, one program variable and one user variable. Here I believe I understood that you considered this requirement to be unacceptable. Because of this, certain non-trivial parts of Custom will have to be rewritten and even redesigned (at least in as far as hooks and certain listvars are concerned) so that they no longer rely on this assumption. I believe this will be difficult enough. I would not try to redesign non broken parts of Custom. Sincerely, Luc.