From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Eliminating "changed in Emacs outside of Customize" Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 09:23:39 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200502031523.j13FNdn21383@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <87r7jxn1z8.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1107444308 13349 80.91.229.6 (3 Feb 2005 15:25:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:25:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 03 16:24:59 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Cwiqp-0005kR-00 for ; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 16:24:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Cwj4A-0007xf-Ju for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 10:38:46 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Cwj3n-0007vA-Sm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 10:38:24 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Cwj3i-0007s4-Kq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 10:38:20 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Cwj3i-0007ro-Fk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 10:38:18 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cwiqm-0004aX-1Q; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 10:24:56 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j13FOt9N020901; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 09:24:55 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id j13FNdn21383; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 09:23:39 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca In-reply-to: <87r7jxn1z8.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:42:57 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:32811 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:32811 Stefan Monnier wrote: If we arranged to record such a list, the only source of problem left would be wrong external packages, which might be a more acceptable risk. .emacs is the _lesser_ of the involved problems. What about code adding functions to defcustomed hooks? I explained in detail in an earlier posting how this could lead to problems. We are _not_ just talking about rogue external packages. There _definitely_ is code included with the Emacs distribution that adds code to defcustomed hooks. In my earlier posting, I quoted a passage from the Elisp manual explicitly saying that it was OK for Elisp code to do that. Hooks are not the only problem by the way. Defcustoms for lists or alists, to which elements can be added _both_ by the user and by Lisp code, present similar problems. All that "Changed outside Custom" does is provide a warning. What is wrong with that? As a Custom user I rely on that warning. Sincerely, Luc.