From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: buff-menu.el header line Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:16:40 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200411182316.iAINGe611009@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1100819919 10604 80.91.229.6 (18 Nov 2004 23:18:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:18:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bob@rattlesnake.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 19 00:18:29 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CUvXp-000130-00 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:18:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CUvgf-0000FX-Ak for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:27:37 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CUvgU-0000FF-Js for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:27:26 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CUvgT-0000F3-Qr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:27:26 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CUvgT-0000Et-LW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:27:25 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CUvX7-0004tw-Lc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:17:45 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAINHdFu023181; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:17:39 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id iAINGe611009; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:16:40 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:13:15 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:30049 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:30049 Stefan Monnier wrote: > 3. There may be more argument about deleting the line providing an > intangible text property. I always comment it out because its > existence means I cannot use `C-n' (next-line) when point is in > the header. On the other hand, others may prefer only to use > `C-f' (forward-char), which leaves the header line and its > underlining. I don't particularly like `intangible', but the above suggests that a better solution is to fix C-n. These are two different problems. One is a (known but unfixed) bug concerning line-move and the intangibility property. The other is a completely inappropriate use of the intangibility property, _regardless_ of that bug. The use of the intangibility property in this instance is inappropriate, because it has absolutely no benefit whatsoever to the user and has several negative consequences. One of the main reasons to set `buffer-menu-use-header-line' to nil is to be able to move into that text. But this is exactly what the intangibility property wants to prevent. Why? If the user does C-f at the beginning of a buffer, it is with the purpose of moving to the right, not to move to the third line. The latter behavior is extremely surprising (and undesirable). Sincerely, Luc.