loading site start before .emacs

loading site start before .emacs

[Micha Feigin]

Is it possible (and are there any issues) to make the site startup
files load before .emacs?

the desktop package seems to have problems with a lot of things if they
are not being loaded before desktop-read is called (I had issues with
ecp and now with preview-latex).

Re: loading site start before .emacs

[David Kastrup]

Micha Feigin <michf@post.tau.ac.il> writes:

> Is it possible (and are there any issues) to make the site startup
> files load before .emacs?
> 
> the desktop package seems to have problems with a lot of things if they
> are not being loaded before desktop-read is called (I had issues with
> ecp and now with preview-latex).

What issues?  preview-latex should work fine with desktop as long as
the respective autoloads for AUCTeX (in tex-site.el) and
preview-latex have already been defined.  This is not about _loading_
those packages, but about providing the necessary load information
when desktop-read decides to call upon them.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: loading site start before .emacs

[Micha Feigin]

On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 01:08:46AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> Micha Feigin <michf@post.tau.ac.il> writes:
> 
> > Is it possible (and are there any issues) to make the site startup
> > files load before .emacs?
> > 
> > the desktop package seems to have problems with a lot of things if they
> > are not being loaded before desktop-read is called (I had issues with
> > ecp and now with preview-latex).
> 
> What issues?  preview-latex should work fine with desktop as long as
> the respective autoloads for AUCTeX (in tex-site.el) and
> preview-latex have already been defined.  This is not about _loading_
> those packages, but about providing the necessary load information
> when desktop-read decides to call upon them.
> 

preview-latex is loaded automatically by the site file, so when I open
new latex files it is available.

When using desktop, unless I add (load "preview-latex") before
desktop-read then preview latex is not available for latex files opened
by desktop for some reason.

It could be some other problem with the setup though. IIRC it did brake
at some point, but I am not sure.

> -- 
> David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
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Re: loading site start before .emacs

[Harry Putnam]

Micha Feigin <michf@post.tau.ac.il> writes:

> preview-latex is loaded automatically by the site file, so when I open
> new latex files it is available.
>
> When using desktop, unless I add (load "preview-latex") before
> desktop-read then preview latex is not available for latex files opened
> by desktop for some reason.

Here is something stolen from Kai G that might help, it leaves a
message in `*Messages*' when something loads:

Put it early in site-start.el
;; make loaded files give a message [from Kai]
 (defadvice load (before debug-log activate)
(message "(Tip from Kai G): Now loading: %s" (locate-library (ad-get-arg 0))))


Might unravel what is loading when.

Re: loading site start before .emacs

[David Kastrup]

Micha Feigin <michf@post.tau.ac.il> writes:

> On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 01:08:46AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> > Micha Feigin <michf@post.tau.ac.il> writes:
> > 
> > > Is it possible (and are there any issues) to make the site startup
> > > files load before .emacs?
> > > 
> > > the desktop package seems to have problems with a lot of things if they
> > > are not being loaded before desktop-read is called (I had issues with
> > > ecp and now with preview-latex).
> > 
> > What issues?  preview-latex should work fine with desktop as long as
> > the respective autoloads for AUCTeX (in tex-site.el) and
> > preview-latex have already been defined.  This is not about _loading_
> > those packages, but about providing the necessary load information
> > when desktop-read decides to call upon them.
> > 
> 
> preview-latex is loaded automatically by the site file, so when I open
> new latex files it is available.

Obviously false.  preview-latex might be added into the load-path by
your site file, but that appears to be about it.

> When using desktop, unless I add (load "preview-latex") before
> desktop-read then preview latex is not available for latex files
> opened by desktop for some reason.

(load "preview-latex") does not load preview-latex.  Take a look at
that file's contents.  It merely defines the autoloads for
preview-latex so that any references to preview-latex functions will
then cause preview-latex to be loaded.  In addition, it enters the
preview-latex setup function into LaTeX-mode-hook.

In short: preview-latex is most certainly not loaded, and not even
initialized, automatically by the site file as you claim.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: loading site start before .emacs

[Tim X]

>>>>> "David" == David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

 David> Micha Feigin <michf@post.tau.ac.il> writes:
 >> On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 01:08:46AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote: >
 >> Micha Feigin <michf@post.tau.ac.il> writes:
 >> > 
 >> > > Is it possible (and are there any issues) to make the site
 >> startup > > files load before .emacs?
 >> > > 
 >> > > the desktop package seems to have problems with a lot of
 >> things if they > > are not being loaded before desktop-read is
 >> called (I had issues with > > ecp and now with preview-latex).
 >> > 
 >> > What issues?  preview-latex should work fine with desktop as
 >> long as > the respective autoloads for AUCTeX (in tex-site.el) and
 >> > preview-latex have already been defined.  This is not about
 >> _loading_ > those packages, but about providing the necessary load
 >> information > when desktop-read decides to call upon them.
 >> > 
 >> 
 >> preview-latex is loaded automatically by the site file, so when I
 >> open new latex files it is available.

 David> Obviously false.  preview-latex might be added into the
 David> load-path by your site file, but that appears to be about it.

 >> When using desktop, unless I add (load "preview-latex") before
 >> desktop-read then preview latex is not available for latex files
 >> opened by desktop for some reason.

 David> (load "preview-latex") does not load preview-latex.  Take a
 David> look at that file's contents.  It merely defines the autoloads
 David> for preview-latex so that any references to preview-latex
 David> functions will then cause preview-latex to be loaded.  In
 David> addition, it enters the preview-latex setup function into
 David> LaTeX-mode-hook.

 David> In short: preview-latex is most certainly not loaded, and not
 David> even initialized, automatically by the site file as you claim.

I think some further evidence that the OP may be on the wrong track is
that according to the emacs info pages, the site-startup.el file is
loaded BEFORE the users .emacs file

,---- From The Init File, `~/.emacs' Info Node
| Your site may also have a "site startup file"; this is named
| `site-start.el', if it exists.  Like `default.el', Emacs finds this
| file via the standard search path for Lisp libraries.  Emacs loads this
| library before it loads your init file.  To inhibit loading of this
| library, use the option `-no-site-file'.  *Note Initial Options::.
`----

Tim

-- 
Tim Cross
The e-mail address on this message is FALSE (obviously!). My real e-mail is
to a company in Australia called rapttech and my login is tcross - if you 
really need to send mail, you should be able to work it out!

Re: loading site start before .emacs

[Micha Feigin]

On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 07:15:17PM +1000, Tim X wrote:
> >>>>> "David" == David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
> 
>  David> Micha Feigin <michf@post.tau.ac.il> writes:
>  >> On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 01:08:46AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote: >
>  >> Micha Feigin <michf@post.tau.ac.il> writes:
>  >> > 
>  >> > > Is it possible (and are there any issues) to make the site
>  >> startup > > files load before .emacs?
>  >> > > 
>  >> > > the desktop package seems to have problems with a lot of
>  >> things if they > > are not being loaded before desktop-read is
>  >> called (I had issues with > > ecp and now with preview-latex).
>  >> > 
>  >> > What issues?  preview-latex should work fine with desktop as
>  >> long as > the respective autoloads for AUCTeX (in tex-site.el) and
>  >> > preview-latex have already been defined.  This is not about
>  >> _loading_ > those packages, but about providing the necessary load
>  >> information > when desktop-read decides to call upon them.
>  >> > 
>  >> 
>  >> preview-latex is loaded automatically by the site file, so when I
>  >> open new latex files it is available.
> 
>  David> Obviously false.  preview-latex might be added into the
>  David> load-path by your site file, but that appears to be about it.
> 
>  >> When using desktop, unless I add (load "preview-latex") before
>  >> desktop-read then preview latex is not available for latex files
>  >> opened by desktop for some reason.
> 
>  David> (load "preview-latex") does not load preview-latex.  Take a
>  David> look at that file's contents.  It merely defines the autoloads
>  David> for preview-latex so that any references to preview-latex
>  David> functions will then cause preview-latex to be loaded.  In
>  David> addition, it enters the preview-latex setup function into
>  David> LaTeX-mode-hook.
> 
>  David> In short: preview-latex is most certainly not loaded, and not
>  David> even initialized, automatically by the site file as you claim.
> 
> I think some further evidence that the OP may be on the wrong track is
> that according to the emacs info pages, the site-startup.el file is
> loaded BEFORE the users .emacs file
> 

Thanks to the comments I found out my mistake. preview-latex is setup
properly. I just used bad examples for setting up mode hooks and used
setq instead of add-hood, which, if I understand correctly, removed
previous hooks, and thus removed the preview latex hook.

> ,---- From The Init File, `~/.emacs' Info Node
> | Your site may also have a "site startup file"; this is named
> | `site-start.el', if it exists.  Like `default.el', Emacs finds this
> | file via the standard search path for Lisp libraries.  Emacs loads this
> | library before it loads your init file.  To inhibit loading of this
> | library, use the option `-no-site-file'.  *Note Initial Options::.
> `----
> 
> Tim
> 
> -- 
> Tim Cross
> The e-mail address on this message is FALSE (obviously!). My real e-mail is
> to a company in Australia called rapttech and my login is tcross - if you 
> really need to send mail, you should be able to work it out!
> _______________________________________________
> Help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs
>  
>  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>  This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System
>  at the Tel-Aviv University CC.
> 

Re: loading site start before .emacs

[Stefan Monnier]

> Is it possible (and are there any issues) to make the site startup
> files load before .emacs?

Use site-start.el instead of default.el.
I find that default.el is almost never the right answer.


        Stefan