From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juanma Barranquero Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggestion: Mapping of M-g should be goto-line Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:53:55 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20040325143336.4AE3.JMBARRANQUERO@wke.es> References: <20040325123800.4ADA.JMBARRANQUERO@wke.es> <86zna5cdnp.fsf@avet.kvota.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1080222968 18566 80.91.224.253 (25 Mar 2004 13:56:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:56:08 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 25 14:56:03 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1B6VL1-0002Zp-00 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:56:03 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1B6VL1-0005uZ-00 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:56:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1B6VK9-0001Fo-Ij for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:55:09 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1B6VJY-0001FP-UF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:54:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1B6VJ2-0001AX-KI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:54:31 -0500 Original-Received: from [62.22.181.117] (helo=idefix.laley.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1B6VJ2-0001AL-7E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:54:00 -0500 Original-Received: from [172.17.221.23] (jsredondo.wk.org [172.17.221.23]) by idefix.laley.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id HNSW5Q1Y; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:52:59 +0100 Original-To: Danilo Segan , emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <86zna5cdnp.fsf@avet.kvota.net> X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.08.01 [en] X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:20896 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:20896 On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:30:18 +0100 Danilo Segan wrote: > Sorry if I sounded too harsh Not at all. My criticism, if any, is directed to the idea that "educating" is always the best answer. People often don't want to be educated, and the reasons (lack of time, interest, whatever) are as subjective as perfectly legitimate. > -- I just want the defaults to be good, > and I'm not at all claiming to know what they should be. I'm > bringing issues and/or solutions to issues brought up in discussion, > which are more "Emacs-ey" than simply using goto-line by hand. I, in fact, agree with you. We differ in that I think goto-line is a perfectly reasonable thing to do in many situations, and its relation with compiling, etc. is only marginal. > With that aside, your claim seems to be spurious at best: you've got > friends who "just won't spend the time to learn features they feel > they're not going to need" -- if they're not going to need them, why > would they care if goto-line is easily accessible, or not? I was referring to things like compile.el; in a few cases, they chose the same path I do (not because of my influence, just because they didn't want to spend time reading the manuals): compile in another console window, use Emacs to edit, fix, save, and back to the console to compile again. Certainly they do use goto-line; in fact, binding it to a key was one of the first things they asked me to do (the other one is setup an f-key to do bs-cycle-next, they won't touch switch-to-buffer and list-buffers with a ten feet pole). > But two of us, _who_ do know of alternate [...] > are far from a good statistical sample (and even > our views differ). Sure. > Lets not knowingly hide very > useful features such as next-error, and expose goto-line instead. The falacy here is that you consider next-error much more useful than goto-line. I don't. I'd bet for users in general, many of which will never compile a thing, going to a line is orders of magnitude more usual than searching for an error. I have a friend (a bookstore owner) who manages all client orders through an ASCII/Perl/MultiEdit setup (MultiEdit is a programmers' editor). He doesn't program at all; he writes orders in ascii files, process them with Perl scripts, send the resulting request to his suppliers, and on arrival of the goodies, he manually edits the ascii files to remove items and classifies the items in boxes for his clients. He won't know what next-error does, but he uses (the MultiEdit equivalent of) goto-line many times a day. As you've said earlier, you and I and most people around here are not statistically normal Emacs users (I think). > (If you want a shortcut to make some sense, it's easy: "error" in > Serbian is "gre=C5=A1ka" [so M-g], and you can easily remember it, right?= ;) Not a good mnemonic, "gresca" in Spanish means something totally different, I'm afraid ;) > since I'd like to point out that many others who > reach for goto-line probably don't) Or, perhaps, it's just that there are not alternatives for a simple task: going to a line. Not an error line, not a line containing some text, just to the line numbered X.=20 > you know how to set it > up to suit your preferences, and have probably developed your own set > of preferences over time, which differ from defaults.=20 Sure. Juanma