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From: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
Cc: Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org>,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org, Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: What's the problem?
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:09:59 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20031211230959.GA17725@fencepost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvptevwjli.fsf-monnier+emacs/devel@vor.iro.umontreal.ca>

On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 09:12:17AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > In a cooperative multi-tasking system, you'd just stick in a (yield) or
> > something, but in emacs this would be very hard to support.
> 
> I don't see why this should be so hard.  What we're talking about is
> basically multiple-stacks, context-switches done only from Feval (i.e. at
> elisp granularity so there's no concurrency in the C code), some form of
> elisp forking and locking primitives

Hmmm, aside from application-level issues (which are probably the same
whether you use cooperative multi-tasking or a goofy framework like I
described earlier), I'd think the most annoying thing would be working around
emacs' use of shallow-binding for variables.  I.e., for local variable
bindings you'd have to unwind the bindings in one thread and wind them in the
next when you switched contexts; I'm not sure how non-normal variables would
fit into things (presumably you would unwind/wind the the same way, but...).

Of course there are other things that behave the same way, like buffer
restrictions etc., but maybe they could be treated as `application level'
issues, and dealt with via explicit or buffer locking of some sort.

If a new `rewind' field were added to unwind-markers on the binding stack, it
could identify those that _do_ matter, and say `unwind me when switching
thread, and here's how to rewind me later.'

Maybe you're right -- if the core changes could be kept fairly small, it
would at least be worth experimenting with.

-miles
-- 
`Life is a boundless sea of bitterness'

  reply	other threads:[~2003-12-11 23:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 133+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-11-16 21:46 Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Frank Schmitt
2003-11-17  0:49 ` Alex Schroeder
2003-11-17  4:06   ` Dhruva Krishnamurthy
2003-11-17  4:29     ` Miles Bader
2003-11-30 16:36       ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-11-30 18:01         ` Vinicius Jose Latorre
2003-11-30 18:39           ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-11-30 18:12         ` Benjamin Riefenstahl
2003-11-30 19:40         ` Nic Ferrier
2003-12-01 16:04         ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-02 14:45           ` Ted Lemon
2003-12-02 15:48             ` Per Abrahamsen
2003-12-02 17:18               ` David Kastrup
2003-12-03 12:38                 ` Per Abrahamsen
2003-12-02 17:27               ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-02 18:53                 ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-03 13:03                   ` Per Abrahamsen
2003-12-02 17:44             ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-03 17:16           ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-03 17:58             ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-03 23:38               ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 13:05                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 14:07                   ` David Kastrup
2003-12-04 14:58                     ` Nic Ferrier
2003-12-04 15:44                       ` David Kastrup
2003-12-04 16:17                     ` Kim F. Storm
2003-12-04 15:58                       ` Nic Ferrier
2003-12-04 16:26                         ` non-blocking sockets (was Re: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Nic Ferrier
2003-12-05 11:35                           ` Kim F. Storm
2003-12-04 19:55                       ` Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 20:30                         ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-04 20:58                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 22:49                             ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-05 12:17                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 13:06                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-05 14:44                                 ` David Kastrup
2003-12-07 23:55                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-08 16:54                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08 17:09                                     ` David Kastrup
2003-12-08 18:10                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08 22:02                                       ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-08 18:25                                     ` What's the problem? (Was: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Luke Gorrie
2003-12-08 19:56                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08 20:56                                         ` David Kastrup
2003-12-08 22:09                                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-08 21:01                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-08 19:57                                       ` What's the problem? Simon Josefsson
2003-12-09 23:45                                         ` Juri Linkov
2003-12-10  0:58                                           ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-10  4:35                                             ` Miles Bader
2003-12-10  5:38                                               ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-10  5:51                                                 ` Miles Bader
2003-12-10  6:34                                                   ` Simon Josefsson
2003-12-10  7:19                                                     ` Miles Bader
2003-12-11 14:12                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-11 23:09                                                         ` Miles Bader [this message]
2003-12-12 23:55                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-13 16:11                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-13 17:29                                                             ` Jan D.
2003-12-13 17:35                                                             ` David Kastrup
2003-12-14  6:17                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-14 11:55                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2003-12-14 14:27                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-14 10:18                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-10  8:18                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2003-12-11 14:45                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-10 15:36                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-11  1:46                                                   ` Miles Bader
2003-12-12 23:54                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-11 18:39                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-11 18:48                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-12  3:27                                                   ` Luke A. Olbrish
2003-12-12  3:57                                                     ` Miles Bader
2003-12-13 15:17                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-13  4:08                                                 ` Miles Bader
2003-12-13 23:14                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-14 13:12                                                   ` Emacs kill buffer Camm Maguire
2003-12-09 19:28                                       ` What's the problem? (Was: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-09 22:02                                         ` David Kastrup
2003-12-10  0:13                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-10  1:41                                             ` David Kastrup
2003-12-10  2:49                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-12  0:44                                                 ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-10  0:45                                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-10  2:55                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-09 19:32                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-09 22:13                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-10 15:16                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
     [not found]                                         ` <E1AUS6B-0006KH-Hq@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                                           ` <4ny8tjryy8.fsf@collins.bwh.harvard.edu>
     [not found]                                           ` <4nn09xm68c.fsf@collins.bwh.harvard.edu>
2003-12-13 23:15                                             ` What's the problem? Richard Stallman
2003-12-14  3:21                                               ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05  8:58                             ` Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-05 11:58                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 12:12                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 20:37                                 ` Luke A. Olbrish
2003-12-05 21:45                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-08  0:10                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-08  1:26                                     ` Luke A. Olbrish
2003-12-04 17:22                   ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 18:01                     ` David Kastrup
2003-12-04 18:31                       ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 19:26                         ` David Kastrup
2003-12-04 22:05                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-04 20:18                     ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 23:00                       ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05 12:06                         ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 13:16                           ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05 21:30                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-05 14:46                           ` David Kastrup
2003-12-05 15:07                             ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-05 13:56                       ` Benjamin Riefenstahl
2003-12-05 21:33                         ` non-blocking auto-save (was: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-03 20:01             ` Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs? Nic Ferrier
2003-12-03 20:29               ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-03 21:42                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-12-04  7:33                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-04 15:37                     ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-04 18:06                       ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-04  7:33                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-12-04 13:14                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2003-12-04 15:41                   ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-06 20:58       ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-12-07  0:15         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-07 14:52           ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-12-07 16:58             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2003-12-07  4:16         ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-12-07 14:53           ` Kai Grossjohann
2003-12-07 23:00             ` Martin Stjernholm
2003-11-17 19:31 ` Richard Stallman
2003-11-17 22:53   ` David Masterson
2003-11-18  5:57     ` Miles Bader
2003-11-20 19:19       ` David Masterson
2003-11-22 21:19         ` Richard Stallman
2003-11-18  6:52     ` John Wiegley

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