From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes to Texinfo DTD Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:19:06 -0600 (CST) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200311241619.hAOGJ6W27027@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <8765heixvu.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk> <87ptfkdqss.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk> <20031122214251.GA14680@fencepost> <874qwuqjzw.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1069691275 11053 80.91.224.253 (24 Nov 2003 16:27:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:27:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: epameinondas@gmx.de, bob@rattlesnake.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, nferrier@tapsellferrier.co.uk, miles@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 24 17:27:44 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AOJYu-0004UO-00 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:27:44 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AOJYt-00047s-00 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:27:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AOKUp-00042B-PW for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:27:35 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AOKUQ-00040Z-SU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:27:10 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AOKTu-0003rD-Pl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:27:09 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AOKTu-0003qz-DZ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:26:38 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAOGPBKk005058; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:25:11 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hAOGJ6W27027; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:19:06 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: juri@jurta.org In-reply-to: <874qwuqjzw.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:54:43 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:18085 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:18085 I am jumping in a thread I have not been following from the beginning which always carries the danger of completely missing the point, but I believe that the quote below is talking about alternatives to the present reformatting of Info files when `Info-hide-note-references' is t. If yes, I have a point I want to make to make sure that this alternative does not make the same mistake as the present reformatting. If not, sorry. Juri Linkov wrote: This will solve the current problem in Info files, where some lines change their length after hiding a part of reference. In XML all additional information can be freely included into tag attributes without affecting the filling of plain text. For example, Menu Keymaps. I hope it will also solve the other problem with the current situation in Emacs with Info-hide-note-references set to t. Namely, in the above example, it would just print "Menu Keymaps" without any indication that this is going to carry you out of the manual you are reading into the Elisp manual. Take (elisp)Locales as an example. The texinfo source contains: @xref{Locales,,, libc, GNU Libc Manual}, for more information about locales and locale items. With Info-hide-note-references set to t this gives: See Locales for more information about locales and locale items. "Locales" is the node we are looking at. So the user thinks: "This is silly. This just offers to carry me to the node I am already staring at." and does not follow the reference. With Info-hide-note-references set to nil, we see: *Note Locales: (libc)Locales, for more information about locales and locale items. Oh, it is actually _not_ the node we are staring at, but a node with exactly the same name in the libc manual! Now, if we are not sure what all this "locale" stuff is really about, here is a useful link to follow. "*Note Locales: (libc)Locales" is actually OK with me, but other people consider it too ugly. That is OK with me too as long as it does not get replaced with something pretty but misleading. Replacing it with "See Locales in the (libc) manual" would be OK. I am not sure whether it would be safe to replace it with the "fully pretty": "See Locales in the GNU Libc Manual", because that refers to the printed manual. It would look OK in this example, but I do not believe it is guaranteed to always be OK. Sincerely, Luc.