all messages for Emacs-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
Cc: bob@rattlesnake.com, teirllm@dms.auburn.edu, rms@gnu.org,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Changing the no-toolkit scrollbar thumb color. (minor issue)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 20:25:29 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20031005002529.GC23295@fencepost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3F7F0D56.2020309@swipnet.se>

On Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 08:11:34PM +0200, Jan D. wrote:
> I am more leaning towards removing all customability in the GTK version of 
> Emacs.  Mainly because the mechanisms used are not well documented in GTK, 
> they have confusing effects depending on what theme you use, but perhaps 
> the most important argument, GTK/Gnome has stated that the only 
> customization they really support is by themes.

Well, I think to the extent that it's techically not a pain to do so, this
attitude on the part of GTK/Gnome should be resisted as much as possible.

It's certainly reasonable to put a big warning in the docs, like:

  THE GNOME MAINTAINERS ARE COMPLETE WANKERS, SO RESULTS OF GTK
  CUSTOMIZATIONS MAY NOT ALWAYS ACT IN A PREDICTABLE MANNER.

[Ok, maybe phrase it a bit differently]

Anyway, it's quite in keeping with emacs tradition to expose the
functionality and let those who wish to use it do so, even if you can't
guarantee the results; a warning should be enough.

> One of the reasons to have GTK in the first place is to get a consistent 
> look-and-feel with other GTK/Gnome applications (granted Emacs uses 
> different icons).  If customizations are needed, we can recommend another 
> toolkit.

That's completely absurd.

Perhaps the main goal of adding GTK support for you was `consistency,' which
is admirable, but please don't repeat the mistakes of the Gnome project by
deciding that `consistency' is so overarching a goal that it ought to trump
all others.

I use GTK because I _like it_, I think it's pretty, and I do like having the
same look as other apps.  On the other hand, I _also_ like customizations;
not every app is the same, and themes don't manage to capture all the
differences (not that GTK's customization facilities make it easy either).

Emacs is, I think, often more atypical than other apps, both for cultural
reasons (emacs users like their emacs, and usually have a pretty strong
opinion what that means), and simply because GTK is basically retro-fitted to
emacs, and so emacs will _never_ entirely conform to whatever rules other GTK
apps do.

Anyway, my main point is: document, don't enforce.

I apologize if any of the above seems obnoxious; I'm very grateful for the
work you've done in adding GTK support to emacs.

-Miles
-- 
"Most attacks seem to take place at night, during a rainstorm, uphill,
 where four map sheets join."   -- Anon. British Officer in WW I

  reply	other threads:[~2003-10-05  0:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 54+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-09-26 20:13 Changing the no-toolkit scrollbar thumb color. (minor issue) Rob Browning
2003-09-26 21:23 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-09-26 21:32   ` Rob Browning
2003-09-27 18:16   ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-09-27 21:55     ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-09-28 13:08       ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-09-28 16:38         ` Jan D.
2003-09-28 21:17           ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-09-29 16:01             ` Jan D.
2003-09-29 19:05               ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-09-29 19:23                 ` Jan D.
2003-09-28 16:42         ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-09-28 18:01           ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-09-28 21:38             ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-09-28 23:47               ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-09-29  0:52                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-09-29  1:30                   ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-09-29 11:58                     ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-09-30 12:22                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-09-29 19:31               ` Richard Stallman
2003-09-30  0:11                 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-09-30 13:55                   ` Stefan Monnier
2003-09-30 14:25                     ` Miles Bader
2003-09-30 15:16                       ` Stefan Monnier
2003-10-04 18:29                     ` Jan D.
2003-09-30 20:25                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-10-04 18:36                     ` Jan D.
2003-10-05  3:24                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-10-05 17:56                       ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-10-05 18:12                         ` Jan D.
2003-10-05 18:27                           ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-10-05 19:16                             ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-10-05 20:57                             ` Jan D.
2003-10-05 22:09                               ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-10-06  0:14                                 ` Miles Bader
2003-10-06  2:22                         ` Miles Bader
2003-10-06  4:15                           ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-10-06  4:34                             ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-10-12 15:04                               ` Jan D.
2003-09-30  0:27                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-09-30 20:24                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-10-01  0:35                   ` Danilo Segan
2003-10-04  0:35                     ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-10-04 18:55                       ` Jan D.
2003-10-04 18:43                     ` Jan D.
2003-10-04 19:35                       ` Danilo Segan
2003-10-04 18:11                   ` Jan D.
2003-10-05  0:25                     ` Miles Bader [this message]
2003-10-05  7:23                       ` Jan D.
2003-10-05  7:59                         ` Miles Bader
2003-09-28 21:25           ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-09-28 17:37     ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-09-28 21:33       ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-09-28 22:03         ` Luc Teirlinck

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20031005002529.GC23295@fencepost \
    --to=miles@gnu.org \
    --cc=bob@rattlesnake.com \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=rms@gnu.org \
    --cc=teirllm@dms.auburn.edu \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.