From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Niels Freimann Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: New Emacs with GTK! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 17:09:38 +0100 Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200303231709.39008.nfreimann@firemail.de> References: <87vfyai2ur.fsf@wassern.consult-meyers.com> Reply-To: nfreimann@firemail.de NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1048435959 14037 80.91.224.249 (23 Mar 2003 16:12:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:12:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: A.L.Meyers@st1.spray.net Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 23 17:12:38 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18x85N-0003e8-00 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 17:12:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18x846-00050O-07 for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:11:18 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18x83q-0004kV-00 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:11:02 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18x83k-0004Ro-00 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:10:59 -0500 Original-Received: from lmsmtp02.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.112]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18x83j-0004NU-00 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:10:55 -0500 Original-Received: from linux (p50812855.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.129.40.85]) by lmsmtp02.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 399B45B69C; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 17:10:54 +0100 (MET) Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 In-Reply-To: <87vfyai2ur.fsf@wassern.consult-meyers.com> Original-cc: spamnjet@yahoo.de X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:7823 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:7823 Dear Lucien, I do not subscribe to any claim about a renaissance of the text=20 console. Nevertheless if you and others persist on an ncurses emacs then why not splitting emacs into gtk and ncurses=20 applications, sharing display unrelated code via libraries, and=20 removing all the motif, .., code forever ? This would reduce code drastically, making the sources easier=20 to understand, finding more support under the younsters who are familiar with concepts like MVC. However one thing must be clear: Any future development must place gtk into the very center. emacs must become fully=20 compatible with modern desktop environments. It must provide all the dialogs known to the people by other GUI programs, and=20 any relicts of the text mode past must disappear. Emacs must=20 look and feel like any other gnome, kde, or window, application.=20 Normally I do not argue phlilosophically, but today I break this rule. I think that the destination of emacs always was=20 towards the future. Richard written it with the future in his=20 mind when others, mesmerized by past resource limitations, written text editors for terminals connected by very slow modems.=20 When I started using emacs, most people still refused using=20 it because the "eight megabytes and constantly swapping monster is too much futuristic". Making plans for emacs future in the year=20 2003 with ncurses in mind, would fail the destination of emacs.To=20 be polemical: our competition isn't vms or something, but=20 M$ windows.=20 Nobody should feel offended by my harsh words. I am now almost 50 years old, and love emacs very much. I am not interested to experience a future death of emacs as an=20 backward oriented dinosaur. If emacs will die one day, then it=20 should die proud as an project which always was one step=20 farther in the future than its competition. I hope you'll understand=20 that. On Sunday 23 March 2003 15:17, A.L.Meyers wrote: > Don't be so sure, Niels > > The text console is alive and thriving, e. g. with the frame buffer > device, which may lead to a renaissance of the text console > > Long live the text console! > > Lucien