From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: goncholden Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Spaces rather than tabs by a major mode hook Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 07:29:04 +0000 Message-ID: <1xWltEpBCXM4OToWWQOprTzAT-58faY8YWEcWTYC5dZASb8_nOPTl9VjOMD-L4V7cEXW3ez45L7ApXd-BQdTxrtUKKCWldskV6ZNHfT2TTU=@protonmail.com> References: <83leu3y0hs.fsf@gnu.org> <83h74rxze0.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkuzxvur.fsf@gnu.org> <83leu2wfjy.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: goncholden Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4066"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 12 09:30:06 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0I2w-0000wu-Ja for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 09:30:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37510 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0I2v-0000jr-GH for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 03:30:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39474) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0I2C-0000jX-9B for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 03:29:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-4324.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.24]:25195) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0I28-0001n4-TC; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 03:29:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1655018954; x=1655278154; bh=UJCoUGK8TRQwLgWyDS8c5FDMQFH/q2FhbLAbHeLIQ64=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To: Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=AkDIlZoCkOuODwaVHM/GycGinff/vDTsQca3eFqH1oDUx0HSPXLdjUQZvQvvZ1Fq8 iaE9y54hfraRqgMHPrHh1aoAgLtNqWTc3Q5kpa6W3nIiLME0u865s6nGA3jkAO+S8l pcUdIfHLaqh4MCMAq/TGSc9MprWN8Vj5MmnKTj0+BAiZn4PMLKMYYt8Lmrxs5dyS2D 2IUhSNTA9qI0VQ5tUOj2ZZWVy1WYGzB2ISJ4XFnwJa4CwxLf2o+vmsvuZFUTPU1wKo b+UWd0VdjKpXoktC1M7XjpK7vu86XFLTH9anpeGRqeC7docJcw4ItDZsWe1IFg8hRh +HDhX2xvf9yCA== In-Reply-To: <83leu2wfjy.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 43053548:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.24; envelope-from=goncholden@protonmail.com; helo=mail-4324.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:137723 Archived-At: ------- Original Message ------- On Sunday, June 12th, 2022 at 6:40 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 20:02:57 +0000 > > From: goncholden goncholden@protonmail.com > > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > > > > Emacs requires you to customize, once, the indentation so that it > > > could thereafter help you by indenting everything automatically to > > > suit the indentation style. That's a win by any measure. Unless you don't want help. You want to do it yourself. Basically, I want all of the support disabled and take complete control exc= ept of the language highlighting. > > That the problem you are taking ages to understand. "Emacs requires you= to customize", the origin of the problem. > > > No, it isn't the problem. It is the solution to many problems, > whereby people use many different coding styles in their programs. It > is impossible to provide good indentation support for any arbitrary > style, so if you happen to need to work with non-standard style, you > need to tell Emacs about that style. But my point is different. I want to instruct emacs not to provide me with= good indentation support for the current buffer, as I know better what to = do. This is the argument I am putting forward. > > > > The question about how many columns should each construct be indent= ed, has no answer. > > > > > > It should be possible to answer that question by just examining the > > > file you posted. > > > > No, because there are thousands of files. > > > Are they using different styles? If so, my suggestion is to reformat > them to the default style supported by Emacs out of the box, before > you start editing. Yes. Same language with many different styles and all syntactically and op= erationally correct. So fixing for some specific style has no practical value whatsoever. > > > Alternatively, you could just reindent the entire file according to > > > the defaults, like this: > > > > > > C-x h > > > C-M-\ > > > > > > and then keep making changes without any customizations. > > > > That would destroy the possibilities of easily detecting code changes. > > > Detecting code changes is nowadays the job of a VCS. A modern VCS can > easily show you changes other than whitespace changes. Or you can > commit the reformatted but otherwise unchanged source first, and then > examine the changes relative to that. > > > The mantra that things can always be customised implies observance to a= single formatting scheme. Legacy code does not even subscribe to that. The= y only had simple editors. If I introduce tabs with > > "C-q TAB", all those tabs get removed by emacs as soon as one presses r= eturn at the end of the line. > > > > Emacs is acting like a dictator. > > > If Emacs doesn't satisfy your needs, you are free to use another > editor, aren't you? It is not about satisfying my needs. There exist regulations in the world = and I cannot modify an entire codebase because some want to use an editor o= ver another. Currently I cannot successfully present my case for the use o= f emacs with the other service branches. Capish, my dear Eli?