From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "B. T. Raven" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: line-move-visual Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 12:08:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1qmdncWZKPl414PRnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@sysmatrix.net> References: <089883ee-0a63-4cb4-a0ec-d2fe4e71cc03@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <87wruco5yq.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87wrubfd8p.fsf@rapttech.com.au> <848w6ndwn0.fsf@cs.bham.ac.uk> <87d3vx5cku.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1291844652 12684 80.91.229.12 (8 Dec 2010 21:44:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 21:44:12 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 08 22:44:07 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PQRny-0001ty-SU for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 22:44:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39857 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PQRny-0007bI-Ah for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:44:06 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!news2.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.sysmatrix.net!news.sysmatrix.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 12:07:49 -0500 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.emacs,comp.lang.lisp In-Reply-To: X-No-Archive: yes Original-Lines: 46 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.73.133.30 Original-X-Trace: sv3-K8X9qS3IYwmpdursvpPSwwTIUCB/eljrEDDwF8OjPPcNoXwRWIC6EfJf7n/CHcgMCuLGVNpNa2UaNbJ!esD7txpatGsZmCrmWPB3VXXxIEFyKYyVEOZfhwLa7vnafgjjWg5t6zmqyyUOneq2vK/Bd5fGxKs+!p3hXYZZ9FP9lldhmMAyn6ue8ryG2JQ== Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@sysmatrix.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:179130 comp.emacs:100097 comp.lang.lisp:289413 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-Gmane-Expiry: 2010-12-22 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:76068 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> principal way of working, rather than in special cases in some obscure >>> feature (keyboard macros). >> Keyboard macros are far from obscure. > > Indeed. > >>> And it was dashed near impossible to move easily to the middle of >>> long, long lines. >> C-u right-arrow Or more conveniently: C-s [C-s ad libitum] RET > > How convenient! > Say you're in a window and want to go down 3 visual lines on the same > long logical line. What number do you use? Ok, let's make it easier > and say that you happen to know that the window is 76-chars wide. > So 76 by 3? quick? quick? > Now let's do that again but with 13 lines, where you don't actually know > it's "13": you first have to count it. > The best I could come up with, is C-76 C-f and then C-x z z z ... until > you reach the line. > > Now this all becomes a lot more interesting once you add word-wrap into > the mix, or TABs, or bytes displayed \NNN, or the presence of various > fonts and/or font-sizes on that long line, or variable-pitch fonts, ... > > Clearly visual line movement is really handy in such long lines. > So rather than "C-u right-arrow", the better answer would > have been: M-x visual-line-mode RET C-n ... > > > Stefan "who reached for the mouse in all those cases, tho > typically only after first unconsciously hitting C-n > a few times and then realizing that C-n jumped way > further than intended" Or, since text editors are trying to wean themselves of everything that smacks of word processing, it might be better to follow Mark Crispin's suggestion to make line-move-visual default to nil and to bind the up -down arrow keys to long-lines navigation. Ed