From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: smc Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.blogging Subject: Re: [Emacsweblogs] i18n Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:29:00 +0000 Message-ID: <1e7a74211001310729s6b0c506cv41cdea9b19274fba@mail.gmail.com> References: <1e7a74211001281954h1295a717id942a4405dc98b25@mail.gmail.com> <87vdekbt60.fsf@everybody.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f4508a2fdc2c047e7787f6 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1264951758 5441 80.91.229.12 (31 Jan 2010 15:29:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:29:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacsweblogs@nongnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Mark A. Hershberger" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 31 16:29:13 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nbbjc-0004rP-Sx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:29:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47197 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nbbjc-0002Zo-Ab for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:29:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NbbjW-0002Yp-BO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:29:06 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=60554 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NbbjW-0002YW-1D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:29:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NbbjU-0002Ib-HY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:29:05 -0500 Original-Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.154]:56018) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NbbjT-0002IL-KG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:29:04 -0500 Original-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 19so77320fgg.12 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2010 07:29:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type; bh=KBE2BvlU+3yfyre5YNloZ9AP/ik6paWCZLadNN7GfVc=; b=S1Da4H3stDtjoiXv+xA+5i6vMDlDpRlr7eAyfeHkRRyLZvJoVwJGVqd4ridgiGzj9K Sksa28nPjzn1qjIcWYqG5FuFH9r8Z3zn6fLinzsa00Qd0pg8z1JmFeST7rqWMB3Ugiir u5H0aZVqayokd5JvDXvck5+l8rhRT3UH0U3v8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=M/k3bT16ldenxskK6fSZncVlk1up5auuOQxe6w8KpugVP60FOMWjrkIpQYoiLe6VYi QIYN+2zlAPz7zuvITisZSHm4YseBw+QYLIOD6Vk4mN796Nm/u9TIws5LV5f6Htle/W6F M/epeWgoD+3mxxWpQwXHobxn0RgkeWORuV7zE= Original-Received: by 10.239.137.211 with SMTP id m19mr623030hbm.34.1264951741110; Sun, 31 Jan 2010 07:29:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87vdekbt60.fsf@everybody.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: da54ecf092451034 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:120746 gmane.emacs.blogging:83 Archived-At: --001485f4508a2fdc2c047e7787f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/1/29 Mark A. Hershberger > smc writes: > > > I don't know if this approach is the better one. I always thought that > > Emacs Lisp itself should implement the Gettext way for translating > > interfaces. > > I like gettext, but I think the better way still is the sort of > collaborative translation that translateWiki enables. > > As I can see, the Translatewiki system is also based in gettext, but with a web interface, like Drupal does. Really, the web interface is not the wa= y for a good editing job. Emacs has a powerful PO mode for that, with access to the source context, and including features for programmers (marking the translatables strings). Still it will be necessary to mark the strings in the Weblogger source files, and a means for these strings to be recognized and proccesed in the user's native language. Gettext proposal is the mark 'gettext' as a standard and a alternative abbreviation for Lisp code consisting of (_"string") > I'm a little surprised (now that I've looked) to discover that there is > no =93Emacs-way=94 to handle i18n and l10n. Perhaps this is an opportuni= ty > to make a significant contribution to Emacs. > > The lack of i18n/l10n from Emacs is a _real_tragedy_ for the Software Libre world and for the entire computer users community. As an example, we are a very small Canary Islands based company. We all use GNU Emacs and our customers from scholar/academic scene -that are good profesionals in areas such as literature, historiography, psychology- are not technical users and most of them do not speak English, but French (in case they really know a second language). It is a deep misconception to think that Emacs is not for this kind of people. With Emacs, we could solve a very large range of their needs. (Emacs is also for _the secretaries_, Stallman said in 1981; this is our starting point, but not only for English secretaries, I suppose.) > Patches welcome! > > Mark. > > --=20 Suso http://gnu.manticore.es --001485f4508a2fdc2c047e7787f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



2010/1/29 Mark A. Hershberger <mah@everybody.org>
smc <smc@mant= icore.es> writes:

> I don't know if this approach is the better one. =A0I always thoug= ht that
> Emacs Lisp itself should implement the Gettext way for translating
> interfaces.

I like gettext, but I think the better way still is the sort of
collaborative translation that translateWiki enables.

As I can see, the Translatewiki system is also based in g= ettext, but with
a web interface, like Drupal does.=A0 Really, the web i= nterface is not the way for
a good editing job.=A0 Emacs has a powerful = PO mode for that, with access
to the source context, and including features for programmers (marking
t= he translatables strings).

Still it will be necessary to mark the st= rings in the Weblogger source files,
and a means for these strings to be= recognized and proccesed in the user's
native language.

Gettext proposal is the mark 'gettext' as a standard and a alte= rnative
abbreviation for Lisp code consisting of (_"string")


= =A0
I'm = a little surprised (now that I've looked) to discover that there is
no =93Emacs-way=94 to handle i18n and l10n. =A0Perhaps this is an opportuni= ty
to make a significant contribution to Emacs.


The lack of i18n/l10n from Emacs is a _real_trage= dy_ for the Software Libre
world and for the entire computer users commu= nity.=A0 As an example, we are
a very small Canary Islands based company= .=A0 We all use GNU Emacs and
our customers from scholar/academic scene -that are good profesionals inareas such as literature, historiography, psycholo= gy- are not technical users
and most of them do not speak English, but French (in case th= ey really know
a second language).=A0 It is a deep misconception to thin= k that Emacs is not
for this kind of people.=A0 With Emacs, we could sol= ve a very large range of
their needs.=A0 (Emacs is also for _the secretaries_, Stallman said in 1981= ; this
is our starting point, but not only for English secretaries, I su= ppose.)

=A0
Patches welcome!

Mark.




--
Suso
http://gnu.manticore.es<= br> --001485f4508a2fdc2c047e7787f6--