From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggested experimental test Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:09:50 +0200 Message-ID: <1bfef8b5-aa26-f64f-1e3b-06aabc9e9939@yandex.ru> References: <87mtuxj8ue.fsf@gnus.org> <9088e12cb3de3d30abf1@heytings.org> <8735wnjsum.fsf@gnus.org> <83sg4n9jei.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2efhx3e.fsf@gnus.org> <838s6f9g5d.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2efgg3w.fsf@gnus.org> <878s6fgdzu.fsf@gnus.org> <19c1ec9e-a97f-a8ab-b966-edadbc299c39@yandex.ru> <83mtuu8gdz.fsf@gnu.org> <87tup26om4.fsf@posteo.net> <831rc682js.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11743"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, gregory@heytings.org, bugs@gnu.support, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 23 14:11:31 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lOgol-0002ym-2h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 14:11:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51512 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOgoj-0003A6-Vb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 09:11:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52914) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOgnE-0001VH-S5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 09:09:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x330.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::330]:55287) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOgnD-0004JE-2z; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 09:09:56 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x330.google.com with SMTP id k128so8622318wmk.4; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 06:09:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=G4YqG6ws5SRtc8Uz/o8AKPTa5UcMUk81mjm/LgefWg8=; b=K5ptYHEYRw39ypzDpQergIp31QXZrAl/tvZ1f2edNLXJ1aphDJQ6aJKJMXkCh2DTbo 8K8KsQ3Vr8ousauZHGJI9HTi3Lu6hAB06fTKXr2udL4H9Cq9/SpIddRd+H454/y0WJfQ 5y+A2InBqXG2gTj+43y1weMIA4KmHxEyZCIapaAItaKRvr+DIz7aAfiV8wPTwie5M9PW NLNtKiPsPGbWLXkzfZUfDvnicsUp4/bHlsRpthuLK9EObfEFRCooOO2a3sfw9o6V3VQS sPLYa0mNs821UTv0yPmSsATmu06M89WC9DJ59yFeYN9g4f+CD0Y4YkMLu96ylmiZDgmZ zCGA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=G4YqG6ws5SRtc8Uz/o8AKPTa5UcMUk81mjm/LgefWg8=; b=XEOb2DB+H2KJFBRCn4DNM/5VSU06JySouZ/r5L2BuorbcNsNi2DqN7bcIbYnx/fVmC 3SLBKJpew5VKJKiDXINlbSTKew/3TTXFgR1v4kmDK/0Cs5Wd7UdZxuOgzMPXzTnYut1g jfxKHIDue3+5t3AAMJPZd8bidZtTVi7AgH0eLkFcLhOOZAY/1rhwRxnLiKdw6hsOiSeP 7YRudchE8v2WcbGyvui+nfW8OzlGMeWbMfy6zUhe/bK+fV0jPntjS8QwnZdsAEaEC1a2 fazSvNM9eQTiyZ2Tt87lmfzncwIpcMNXe+PbEpl8ZzlbCGu8B05aO2B/ZROQdRG9OBkn Miyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533ZPRegwpoUfwYzWSud5Pzun4RN3zAM5Hxavnsr/9Zmj2k0fRFo WyIejo0kY8wnumOFHeVQIkM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwdb5TtoxPZVW+BIiZ9U745E/21UverI3TYQZ2fdlvaEAA7IiRsQD2ddSyk4WZ99vMODqsGQQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3515:: with SMTP id h21mr3406040wmq.9.1616504993120; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 06:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s83sm2689502wms.16.2021.03.23.06.09.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Mar 2021 06:09:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831rc682js.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::330; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x330.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:266871 Archived-At: On 23.03.2021 14:41, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Isn't the idea of providing a theme to change the behaviour that users >> can enable or disable them easily, without the defaults having to change? > > The theme suggestion was a proposal to conduct an experiment without > interfering with those who want no part in the experiment. It has another goal as well: to have bindings changed in a logical and consistent fashion. Having find-file on both 'C-x C-f' and 'C-o' would make little sense to me, for example. > But > eventually, the intent is to change the default behavior, because > rebinding any key to any command is already possible, and nothing > prevents users from doing that in their private init files. So having > a non-default theme that makes a bunch of such rebindings makes little > sense to me. I think the above is more important than the goal of making it a default (which might or might not happen in 10 years or so, if we end up reaching some critical mass of users who dislike Emacs's historical bindings). But even while the alternative keybindings theme is not the default, we would maintain it and keep it usable. Whenever we add something to the default set, we would consider adding a corresponding binding to that other theme, etc. Having an alternative, well-considered set of bindings which new user can just toggle on and get comfortable should be valuable.