Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-)

["Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev>]

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Totally missed this message given the high traffic on the thread. 

> Sorry Bozhidar, and I apologize if this hurt you or disappointed
> you.  I'm fine with not being your hero anymore and frankly I don't
> deserve it: there are no "heroes" or "total jerks" here, just someone
> who -- contrary to you -- thinks some Clojure support in core Emacs
> is good.

Fair enough. I just really believe that the outcomes are better when we try harder to explain ourselves and understand the concerns of others. Perhaps I failed myself given how the message exchange between the two of us unfolded. 

> It's just you're just coming across as very defensive.  Maybe I
> misunderstood "the gist" of your position just as you previously
> misinterpreted a position of mine.

I was definitely on the defence, given that some of the messages implied things with which I strongly disagree - especially the part that I have something personal to gain from Emacs not having built-in Clojure support. The gist of it for me was simply "I'm ware of the impact that the inclusion would have to the current development process and to the number of outside contributions we'd be getting". I was also unsure of the reasoning for this sudden interest in Clojure from the Emacs team.

Like most people I don't want to do something unless I'm sure it will be valuable in some way (e.g. for the health of the project, for the end users, for Emacs itself, etc). Eli's words that he believes that'd be good for Emacs and I perhaps am not thinking about this got me to pause and think a bit longer. After all, Clojure was probably the biggest reason for new people to try out Emacs around the time it was introduced. 

Anyways, despite everything and my own personal frustration, I think I have a reasonably good idea of where we stand right now and what to do next. 

P.S. I'm a very emotional person and yesterday I was royally pissed. Normally I think a bit longer about what I write, but that wasn't one of those days. 

On Sun, Sep 3, 2023, at 6:20 PM, João Távora wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 3, 2023 at 4:55 PM Bozhidar Batsov <bozhidar@batsov.dev> wrote:
> >
> > All I did was to follow up on a suggested path and study technical ways
> > to getting Clojure editing support in Emacs, better than what we have
> > now, which is 0.  I think is a pretty reasonable thing to do on
> > emacs-devel.  It's not an immoral thing to do and I'm not coming for His
> > Highness The Great Clojure Authority Life's Work.
> >
> >
> > Joao, I've tried to be polite, but you behave like a total jerk right now. That's really disappointing as you used to be one of my Emacs heroes for a very long time. That makes me very sad. Such attitude alienates a lot of people from emacs-devel IMO.
> 
> Sorry Bozhidar, and I apologize if this hurt you or disappointed
> you.  I'm fine with not being your hero anymore and frankly I don't
> deserve it: there are no "heroes" or "total jerks" here, just someone
> who -- contrary to you -- thinks some Clojure support in core Emacs
> is good.
> 
> It's just you're just coming across as very defensive.  Maybe I
> misunderstood "the gist" of your position just as you previously
> misinterpreted a position of mine.
> 
> João
> 

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