From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 12:20:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1a76af5c-e408-4ae4-83cf-a81e29f30dec@default> References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> <87a8nc56j5.fsf@gnus.org> <87twl3bz1a.fsf@gnus.org> <0e46790f-faa7-4008-9c37-f46be709513b@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455999744 13044 80.91.229.3 (20 Feb 2016 20:22:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:22:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org To: John Wiegley Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 20 21:22:10 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aXE2c-00020T-9T for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 21:22:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35416 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aXE2b-0005zS-Hi for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:22:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38261) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aXE2X-0005zI-O1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:22:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aXE2U-0008NG-Gy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:22:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:38472) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aXE2U-0008NC-DN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:22:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXE2U-0007KH-6t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:22:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.145599966528095 (code B ref 11482); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:22:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2016 20:21:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35599 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXE1Z-0007J5-An for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:21:05 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:31352) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXE1Y-0007IH-5G for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:21:04 -0500 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u1KKKvff003572 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:20:58 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u1KKKvqG010295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:20:57 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u1KKKs46025459; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:20:54 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:113376 Archived-At: > > Feel free to close this bug, if you don't care that Gnus respects the `= M-s' > > "convention" and #1 is most important. I filed the bug report based on = an > > Icicles user report. I filed it because of my understanding that `M-s' = is > > conventionally a search prefix key. >=20 > Let's change the topic of this bug then, to be about whether M-s should b= e a > reserved key to be respected by all modes or not, and therefore require a= n > update to the Elisp convention. Lars, do you think this would be troubles= ome > for Gnus? I'm not sure I'd advise that. I think it might be better to leave this `M-s' "rule" as it is, and thus leave uses by Emacs itself up to Emacs Dev. Users and 3rd-party library authors already understand, or will come to understand, that Emacs itself uses `M-s' as a prefix for search keys, and they will take that into account in deciding whether they want to repurpose it. IOW, if it is not cast in bronze in the `Key Binding Conventions' then there is more leeway for judgment calls, case by case. That might be the best approach for this. The list of official key reservations is purposely quite limited, and that has not hurt Emacs. And there will likely be other such decisions, as Emacs makes more use of prefix keys (because keys are a limited resource). That's my expectation, at least: consolidation of related keys on prefix keys (by default), such as was done for `M-s', in order to deal with a shortage of keys. In any case, IMHO, a decision whether to make `M-s' reserved should not be based on, or even influenced by, whether doing that would be troublesome for Gnus. Reserving `M-s' is a bigger decision - even if it would not be troublesome for Gnus, that should not be sufficient to decide to do it. And even if it is troublesome for Gnus, that should not be sufficient to decide not to do it. So I would prefer to see this bug dealt with, one way or another, without deciding once and for all whether `M-s' should be reserved per the published key-binding conventions. Just one opinion (and I could be persuaded otherwise).