From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Translation of manuals (was: SES manual French translation) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 01:17:31 +0000 Message-ID: <1E3685C0-7B33-45BB-BF3C-AD1215BAB33B@traductaire-libre.org> References: <835y0azhvo.fsf@gnu.org> <83wmsqy14p.fsf@gnu.org> <3E7CF23D-CE62-4581-80D6-E6266CEE4DF5@traductaire-libre.org> <83edexy5cy.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15226"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , =?utf-8?Q?Vincent_Bela=C3=AFche?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 05 07:39:15 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rLdrP-0003iX-H6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 07:39:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLdqZ-0006tl-EE; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 01:38:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLYqR-0000LC-KP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2024 20:17:55 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-4022.proton.ch ([185.70.40.22]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLYqM-0000wU-N8; Thu, 04 Jan 2024 20:17:54 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=traductaire-libre.org; s=protonmail; t=1704417465; x=1704676665; bh=qSlwlc4VsQLk7Ic1/sO9dGy+9L3kH4cD3F/CdV1b4s0=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=k93WFyjBoJ7F4n8M8OYwGLMtUdBvmo75C0vW6yZLI9YD0EU9jHEBr9OOfBT43AzAX +7uWKNz74abzJBdBxNWb3FxIxv1rdJlwxGuOyIMhqyepgs1oPufi34lLstz41N8edI BZAKiZxut8GvGJp6kwMccXm+dYrygcwENNZXEMe+s1W5KKXtdNWwrK40emTMTqs6cV Peut1z8N1OpFeG9as765IcuDQyPNVBUCA7ThLgXigOP8HT+Ix9CfvY2Li0G0OsttL0 RXvi34aT+QUGyk3EacpyUkW2SXJ771zck1R2CFoX7CYISFWid+U4ex/tr9rawtaV8R PfZtA1z5C1lZg== In-Reply-To: Feedback-ID: 92162971:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.22; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org; helo=mail-4022.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 01:38:21 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314556 Archived-At: > On Jan 5, 2024, at 9:04, Stefan Kangas wrote: >=20 > Jean-Christophe Helary > writes: >=20 >> More pragmatically, it is because I am a freelance worker who is paid >> by the hour. I can=E2=80=99t allow myself to give more to the client tha= n what >> I am paid for. I need to assume that the source document is of >> reasonable quality and that its intent is clear. >>=20 >> When I translate or otherwise contribute to free software projects, the >> ethics are slightly different, but that does not profoundly change the >> way I work. >=20 > When you do volunteer translations and deeply care about the source > material, the process is indeed different. I myself often end up with > long lists of proposed edits to the original. I do submit a list of mistakes and their fixes when I translate for=20 money, because we=E2=80=99re also proofreaders in a way. > Improving ses.texi was one motivation for Vincent when he translated it > to French, IIUC. I'm sure some translators will want to do that, and > others won't. >=20 > The flip-side is that doing it can get very time consuming. Haha! Yes. That=E2=80=99s why I fully rewrote the OmegaT manual last year t= o=20 prepare the 6.0 release. :) >> Decorations are irrelevant in OmegaT. Only the msgid contents is taken >> into account. Decorations are also not shown in the OmegaT editor. I >> just see the paragraphs, above, below, and I translate the text >> contents without worrying about the decorations. >=20 > BTW, OmegaT is well worth trying out for anyone interested in > translating. It=E2=80=99s the only free software translation editor for professional (an= d=20 committed amateur) translators. Since its first release in 2002, we=20 managed to keep it free of =E2=80=9Ccloud versions for money=E2=80=9D and o= ther kinds of=20 strings. As the current project coordinator, I insist on saying that it=20 is =E2=80=9Cfree software=E2=80=9D and not =E2=80=9Copen source software= =E2=80=9D, and I introduced the=20 4 freedoms in the short help text that=E2=80=99s displayed when you launch = 6.0. We have infrastructure on non-free systems (github for one), but that= =E2=80=99s=20 parts I don=E2=80=99t have skills to propose fixes for and we=E2=80=99re al= l volunteers.=20 But I=E2=80=99m currently exploring ways to remove such dependencies. Etc. > My hope is that we eventually will have something similar for Emacs, of > course, but we are very far off still. I'm not aware of any project > that has attempted to build that. There were discussions on the emacs user list a while back that was=20 started by Macin Borkowski, where I attempted to explain what was the=20 typical process in =E2=80=9Cprofessional=E2=80=9D tools (or rather, using t= he industry=20 standards that are TMX/SRX, etc.)=20 https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2020-05/msg00168.html The thread extended into December of that year and it was really=20 interesting. OmegaT is the reason why I got interested in emacs. That was slightly=20 before the Common Lisp revival of the early 2000s. Before Seibel wrote=20 his Common Lisp book. The editor =E2=80=9Cfield=E2=80=9D in OmegaT does not= come with=20 all the editing features that Emacs has (obviously) and I thought that=20 maybe it would be worth trying to have it the other way round, i.e.=20 build something like OmegaT on emacs. At the time I was making a lot of=20 (free) seminars in Japan to introduce OmegaT in the hope of finding=20 developers. One managed to use a python to java =E2=80=9Cbridge=E2=80=9D to= interact=20 with OmegaT from Emacs, but that was it. I=E2=80=99m not holding my breath for such a =E2=80=9Cmode=E2=80=9D to be d= eveloped. But it=E2=80=99s=20 OK. I would not think of writing SVG images in Emacs, so I=E2=80=99m fine d= oing=20 my translation work in OmegaT. I use Emacs for other things. --=20 Jean-Christophe Helary @jchelary@emacs.ch https://traductaire-libre.org https://mac4translators.blogspot.com https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/