From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: `isearch-allow-scroll' - a misnomer and a bad design Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 14:13:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1E326F7C4A694007BF33B952C6718798@us.oracle.com> References: <20110911103940.GA3246@acm.acm><3C4B7E318EB04AE4B7DB9FD0E4C67629@us.oracle.com><20110911173012.GA3088@acm.acm><20110912093651.GA3249@acm.acm><20110913142732.GB3081@acm.acm><7E2EE144B11D413583E1E659CDE15186@us.oracle.com><8739g0vyuy.fsf@mail.jurta.org><4E6FF63A.4070604@gmail.com><2F1337889F394491BA778ACA46799812@us.oracle.com><874o07m3ay.fsf@maru.md5i.com> <87r539c0qx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1316639650 32594 80.91.229.12 (21 Sep 2011 21:14:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:14:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: md5i@md5i.com, dan.colascione@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dmoncayo@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, yandros@mit.edu To: , "'Stephen J. Turnbull'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 21 23:14:05 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R6U7H-0007Zx-Au for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 23:14:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33828 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6U7G-0008RE-I0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:14:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:48567) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6U7D-0008Qs-By for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:14:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6U7C-0002aP-9V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:13:59 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:64402) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6U7C-0002a3-2o; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:13:58 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p8LLDpFu024404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:13:53 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8LLDn0u005868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:13:50 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt116.oracle.com (abhmt116.oracle.com [141.146.116.68]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p8LLDiZD027373; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 16:13:44 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 14:13:44 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acx4n+ORa/G+3N4DQnKfy15IKC2UJAAAgleA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A020201.4E7A5391.015B:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 141.146.126.227 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144172 Archived-At: > From this point of view, the whole point of Alan's > changes (and of Drew's suggestion as well) is to *reduce* > the modality of isearch. With Alan's option *on*, scrolling > commands now work as they do elsewhere in Emacs: the visible > portion of the buffer at hand changes, without disturbing the > state of the buffer or the search. > > I never noticed Alan's proposal, Alan's "proposal" wrt scrolling is not a proposal. It has been part of Emacs since 2003/2/24, according to a comment in isearch.el. Blame its admission on the Emacs maintainer back then, I guess. ;-) > but now that I see what it is, I am > against it. It is very common to use C-v to exit an Isearch. This > change would be a painful surprise. It is a user _option_, and by default the behavior is the one you prefer. (FWIW, I prefer the same behavior as you for this: `C-v' exits Isearch.) > The idea that being in a search is a state that commands "shouldn't > disturb" is the result of thinking of it as a mode. It is normal > for editing commands to stop searching and edit instead. And editing commands are perfectly free to do that. No one says that commands "shouldn't disturb" searching. And commands do so and will continue to do so, even with the new proposal wrt `C-u'. Such commands are not bound to keys in `isearch-mode-map', so they will exit Isearch (and take their `C-u' with them. ;-)). This is about creating a user _option_ to allow commands that are bound to keys in `isearch-mode-map' to receive the prefix arg that a user tries to give them. That's all. And you have already agreed to adding this option. What remains to decide is the default value of the option.