From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Developer contributions / was: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:39:50 +0200 Message-ID: <1DB15B27-476E-49B8-885B-8857F9684D53@gmail.com> References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <83lj9fspjq.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279017609 11021 80.91.229.12 (13 Jul 2010 10:40:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:40:09 +0000 (UTC) To: Emacs-Devel devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 13 12:40:06 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYcuD-0002c7-D2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:40:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60862 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYcuC-0005PL-Kj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:40:04 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=36935 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYcu5-0005Nt-Io for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:39:58 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYcu4-0005Dw-7V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:39:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.214.41]:51407) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYcu4-0005Dd-2s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:39:56 -0400 Original-Received: by bwz9 with SMTP id 9so3830614bwz.0 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:39:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:content-type:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :references:to:x-mailer; bh=DIWtn4aAe4t+lvRvkroskUWjSjFMP9+rsrldkaAL3VA=; b=euEZS3EIVamwsd70v9umeRAbAe5/hOAdl0jRbClePZlBpCukK9tbtwWyWQ4TEdH7mY 4NmcgDFP8nM5bSTiYTW24gjgZ3ptzo2FpG9+Q7Up24HLDowKUv6mY5JbYBCyunb4enNB zKftiSbeoZa3dYKAxeMryOpBF9ujqGKqJ3FT4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; b=eKnQvizBtmpDg1cCKWZgCS024Ovx7/ZR6SBL2ch3yIC9raaO9wkpGZ4cnxOF4MRxj0 Zlokm6HZly5/FKTUMLBJc11BHK10d2lDGDrgeE0ZV5TQEp42OEy3Euqehz3PCSvGTe6E 6luliXpisLMkU5iC7XRfS9EmjjH/Lp5V8lwNk= Original-Received: by 10.204.128.144 with SMTP id k16mr2434469bks.171.1279017594724; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from nl107-178-83.student.uu.se (nl107-178-83.student.uu.se [130.243.178.83]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s17sm23127407bkx.18.2010.07.13.03.39.51 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:39:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83lj9fspjq.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127165 Archived-At: On Jul 12, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > But I bet there is also a fair amount of > good code sitting around out there that people are unwilling to > contribute because of the scutwork and bikeshedding entailed in > getting anything into Emacs, and which experienced developers could > whip into shape quite quickly if they just took the code and said "it > will be our pleasure". >=20 but: On Jul 12, 2010, at 10:20 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > However, I hope you will understand that making the necessary changes > for a contributor who is unwilling to make them by herself is not a > good policy in the long run, because (1) it's hardly a good use of the > limited time resources I have, and (2) we will need to do this > forever, as the contributor doesn't want to adapt their practices to > some minimal requirements of QA and code cleanness. He even refuses > to reformat his code as to facilitate the review! >=20 Often, I find that developers here insist on diagnosing and fixing more = than is necessary to address an annoyance reported by the user. = Usually, they technically right and I applaud their thoroughness. = However, given limited resources, I prioritize issues reported by our = users (n>1). Hunting down some deep issues tends to be very difficult = if you don't know the relevant code intimately. So, I leave this to = people who can do it. (An example is the recent discussion about frame = order management that should be left to the window manager on NS.) A "diff" between Emacs and Aquamacs currently runs >500k lines. While = much of it may not be to Emacs code quality standards (it's not about = formatting!), it represents an incremental improvement nonetheless. = All of this is GPL'ed of course. I cannot assign every bit of code to = the FSF (it was contributed by many authors), but then again, nobody = ever asked or volunteered their time to adapt code for upstream = integration anyway. Further development issues: - If the Git mirror finally allowed commits, I would at least commit = some bug fixes and small improvements! Am I the only one? - In some cases, where I have analyzed bugs and almost present them on a = plate, the bug reports still go ignored for a long time. Given limited = resources, let's improve collaboration here to maximize efficiency.