From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Proposal to improve the nomenclature of scrolling directions Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 13:00:35 -0800 Message-ID: <1CF4C6CD6A0240B69C63136DE50020A5@us.oracle.com> References: <50994EF8.5000109@yandex.ru> <83vcdh1iwc.fsf@gnu.org> <2B5C98417BC14B52A67BFAB62DBC8EF9@us.oracle.com> <83mwyt1cuq.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1352322048 19893 80.91.229.3 (7 Nov 2012 21:00:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:00:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Adrian.B.Robert@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 07 22:00:57 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TWCk3-0006Zm-8x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 22:00:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38497 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWCju-0004Ba-Bl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 16:00:46 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60833) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWCjr-0004BT-59 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 16:00:44 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWCjq-0002jb-2L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 16:00:43 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:22357) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWCjo-0002jB-Ib; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 16:00:40 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qA7L0baY019286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:00:38 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qA7L0bOP009053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:00:37 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qA7L0bTE026383; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:00:37 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.8) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 13:00:36 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac29ForYPtLvRQ5LTte+11KtLj+4SQACeneg In-Reply-To: <83mwyt1cuq.fsf@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:154719 Archived-At: > > > and those should have no problems with the current command names. > > Irrelevant whether they do or do not. > It is relevant. The old names will stay. The new names, which include "page" for non page-related stuff, will cause false-positive matches against "page". That's the point. No one said there would be a problem finding the page-related commands if you name other commands to also include "page". Sure, it adds noise, but that's not the problem I pointed out. > > The point is that adding things whose names include `page' > > but that have nothing to do with Emacs pages adds confusion > > and works against name-matching (e.g. apropos). That's all. > > There's no confusion here, because PageDown is a key present on any > widely used keyboard today. The notion of "paging down" is familiar > to everyone. Sure, but it has nothing to do with Emacs pages (a la page delimiter). That's the confusion that this would introduce. > "Pages" in Emacs, i.e. chunks of text delimited by ^L characters, are > a feature not shared by most other GUI applications. Like so many Emacs features. > It is traditional Emacs behavior to support such pages. It is Emacs behavior. That's all. > When you talk about that behavior, you necessarily talk about > traditional Emacs behavior, from day one till today. When you talk about that behavior you talk necessarily about Emacs behavior. Nothing more. > So I submit that there's no problem here, as a matter of fact. The outside world calls "window" what Emacs calls "frame". Maybe we should rename all functions and variables that use "frame" to use "window" instead, to avoid this traditional-Emacs-generated confusion. You wouldn't mind that, would you, even if it introduced false positives for people looking for symbols having to do with Emacs windows? Especially since only Emacs "veterans" are familiar with the terminology of Emacs windows, and they would anyway still have the original "-window-" symbols available (at least for a while).