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From: chad <yandros@MIT.EDU>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: ding@gnus.org, 'Emacs devel' <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: smtp crap
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:13:37 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1C9CC457-A5D9-40F4-9D26-7A4C37829042@MIT.EDU> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <447111A2EC694399973999C249891686@us.oracle.com>


On Oct 26, 2011, at 3:32 PM, Drew Adams wrote:

>>> This is nothing but a regression - reporting a bug with `emacs
>>> -Q' has never been a problem in past releases.  Why burden 
>>> and confuse users now?
>> 
>> I have personally seen dozens, of emacs bug reports sitting 
>> stuck in local mail queues, with the user having no idea that 
>> the bug never made it beyond the local workstation.  
>> I am not the only one to report this kind of problem. 
>> This type of configuration is (as near as we can tell) at 
>> least as common now than it was then.
> 
> Yes, that is undesirable.

Undesirable, well know, and obviously the opposite of ``has never been
a problem in the past'', as you knew before you wrote those words.  It
also pretty clearly answers the question ``Why burden and confuse
users now?''.

> The solution is to simply _mention_ in the bug-report instructions that "IF you
> have no mail client and IF you have not yet configured Emacs itself as a mailer,
> THEN invoke `M-x XYZ' to so configure it.", where XYZ is a command that leads
> you down whatever configuration garden path is required.

So, you want to ask the user, in the middle of reporting a bug, to
notice that there's a warning somewhere, and then guess whether or not
emacs can send mail without extra steps on their part, when we know
that a common failure mode is ``it doesn't work and the user can't
reasonably know that it didn't/won't work''.  Seems like a pretty poor
default to me. YMMV.

*Chad


  reply	other threads:[~2011-10-26 23:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 94+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-10-08  2:02 smtp crap Miles Bader
2011-10-08  4:14 ` Chong Yidong
2011-10-08  6:17   ` Drew Adams
2011-10-08  6:48     ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-08  7:03       ` Drew Adams
2011-10-08 13:47       ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-10-08 14:20         ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-09 14:50           ` Sivaram Neelakantan
2011-10-09 23:58             ` Tim Cross
2011-10-10 11:19               ` Richard Riley
2011-10-08 14:38         ` Drew Adams
2011-10-09  5:53         ` Tim Cross
2011-10-10 21:43         ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-10 22:05           ` Drew Adams
2011-10-10 22:08           ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-10-10 22:12             ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11  3:40             ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11  5:38               ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11  4:09           ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11  5:05             ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11  7:00               ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 12:40                 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 13:01                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 15:42                     ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 17:25                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 18:51                         ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 19:26                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 19:46                             ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-10-11 21:32                               ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 22:24                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2011-10-12  1:12                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-12 13:42                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-12 14:30                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-14 13:51                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 20:48                             ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 14:53                   ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 16:00                     ` PJ Weisberg
2011-10-11 16:24                       ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 21:21                         ` Tim Cross
2011-10-11 22:00                           ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 22:41                             ` Tim Cross
2011-10-11 22:54                               ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 22:12                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 23:11                             ` Tim Cross
2011-10-12  0:01                               ` Drew Adams
2011-10-12  8:49                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-12 14:04                       ` Jason Rumney
2011-10-12 14:33                         ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-12  1:30                 ` Chong Yidong
2011-10-12  3:22                   ` Drew Adams
2011-10-12  4:50                   ` Tim Cross
2011-10-12  6:33                   ` joakim
2011-10-12  8:59                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-12 10:24                       ` joakim
2011-10-12 11:32                       ` Juanma Barranquero
2011-10-12  9:12                     ` Lennart Borgman
2011-10-12 14:16                       ` Jason Rumney
2011-10-12 14:34                         ` Lennart Borgman
2011-10-12 14:47                           ` Drew Adams
2011-10-12 15:21                             ` Lennart Borgman
2011-10-12 11:29                     ` Juanma Barranquero
2011-10-12  8:58                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-08  8:17     ` David Engster
2011-10-08  8:52     ` Bastien
2011-10-08 12:36     ` Miles Bader
2011-10-08 14:10     ` Harry Putnam
2011-10-10 21:38     ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-10 22:06       ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-10-11  2:09         ` Glenn Morris
2011-10-11  5:10           ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11  3:38         ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-10 22:08       ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11  0:34       ` Miles Bader
2011-10-11  3:36         ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11  4:20           ` Miles Bader
2011-10-11  4:41             ` chad
2011-10-11  5:34               ` Tim Cross
2011-10-11  5:03             ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11  5:38               ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11  5:38             ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11  5:38           ` Drew Adams
2011-10-26 17:58       ` Drew Adams
2011-10-26 18:14         ` Adam Sjøgren
2011-10-26 21:48         ` chad
2011-10-26 22:32           ` Drew Adams
2011-10-26 23:13             ` chad [this message]
2011-10-27  0:08               ` Drew Adams
2011-10-27  2:51               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-10-27  0:23         ` Tim Cross
2011-10-27  1:00           ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-09  1:28 ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2011-10-09  6:06   ` Miles Bader
2011-10-09 14:55     ` Michael Welsh Duggan
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2011-10-08  2:08 Miles Bader

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