* 23 branch - can't push - lock @ 2011-06-16 15:49 David Reitter 2011-06-16 16:28 ` David Reitter 2011-06-16 17:27 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: David Reitter @ 2011-06-16 15:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Emacs devel Can't push to the 23 branch - there's a lock. Any suggestions? The usual bzr comment: This is not the only weird problem I had with Bazaar, and I was just trying to push a change to make the 23 branch compile again. It's been slow, I've seen unclear error messages, and now I can't push. Oh man. To say something positive at least, "bzr resolve" trumps git's manual "add" operations in terms of convenience. dr@elin:~/Projects/emacs/emacs-23 $ bzr push Using saved push location: bzr://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-23 bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(filtered-160255308:///emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock): Permission denied: "/srv/bzr/emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock/lufitpwgqo.tmp": [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/srv/bzr/emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock/lufitpwgqo.tmp' dr@elin:~/Projects/emacs/emacs-23 $ bzr --version Bazaar (bzr) 2.3.1 Python interpreter: /usr/bin/python 2.6.1 Python standard library: /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6 Platform: Darwin-10.7.0-i386-64bit bzrlib: /Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/bzrlib Bazaar configuration: /Users/dr/.bazaar Bazaar log file: /Users/dr/.bzr.log Copyright 2005-2010 Canonical Ltd. http://bazaar.canonical.com/ bzr comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. bzr is free software, and you may use, modify and redistribute it under the terms of the GNU General Public License version 2 or later. Bazaar is part of the GNU Project to produce a free operating system. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: 23 branch - can't push - lock 2011-06-16 15:49 23 branch - can't push - lock David Reitter @ 2011-06-16 16:28 ` David Reitter 2011-06-16 21:44 ` Glenn Morris 2011-06-16 17:27 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: David Reitter @ 2011-06-16 16:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Emacs devel On Jun 16, 2011, at 11:49 AM, David Reitter wrote: > Can't push to the 23 branch - there's a lock. Any suggestions? > Using saved push location: bzr://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-23 > bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(filtered-160255308:///emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock): Permission denied: "/srv/bzr/emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock/lufitpwgqo.tmp": [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/srv/bzr/emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock/lufitpwgqo.tmp' Looks like it's a permissions error rather than one concerning just the lock file. In case any of you low-time committers run into the same problem, use the bzr+ssh protocol: bzr push bzr+ssh://USERNAME@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-23 That worked. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: 23 branch - can't push - lock 2011-06-16 16:28 ` David Reitter @ 2011-06-16 21:44 ` Glenn Morris 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2011-06-16 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Reitter; +Cc: Emacs devel David Reitter wrote: > Looks like it's a permissions error rather than one concerning just > the lock file. Yes; you were trying to commit anonymously. > In case any of you low-time committers run into the same problem, use > the bzr+ssh protocol: > > bzr push bzr+ssh://USERNAME@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-23 This is written in the instructions on: http://savannah.gnu.org/bzr/?group=emacs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: 23 branch - can't push - lock 2011-06-16 15:49 23 branch - can't push - lock David Reitter 2011-06-16 16:28 ` David Reitter @ 2011-06-16 17:27 ` Eli Zaretskii 2011-06-16 17:44 ` David Reitter 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-06-16 17:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Reitter; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: David Reitter <david.reitter@gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:49:05 -0400 > > Can't push to the 23 branch - there's a lock. Any suggestions? Yes, the obvious: "bzr break-lock". But someone already did, because it isn't locked. Maybe it's a local lock on your machine, in which case "bzr break-lock" will fix that. > The usual bzr comment: This is not the only weird problem I had with Bazaar, and I was just trying to push a change to make the 23 branch compile again. It's been slow, I've seen unclear error messages, and now I can't push. Oh man. What is your network bandwidth? It's quite fast for me (I have 3.5Mbps). To say something positive at least, "bzr resolve" trumps git's manual "add" operations in terms of convenience. > dr@elin:~/Projects/emacs/emacs-23 $ bzr push > Using saved push location: bzr://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-23 > bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(filtered-160255308:///emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock): Permission denied: "/srv/bzr/emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock/lufitpwgqo.tmp": [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/srv/bzr/emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock/lufitpwgqo.tmp' That _is_ a local lock on your machine. Did you Ctrl-C in the middle of a commit or something? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: 23 branch - can't push - lock 2011-06-16 17:27 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-06-16 17:44 ` David Reitter 2011-06-16 20:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: David Reitter @ 2011-06-16 17:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel On Jun 16, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Yes, the obvious: "bzr break-lock". I see... thanks. >> >> dr@elin:~/Projects/emacs/emacs-23 $ bzr push >> Using saved push location: bzr://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-23 >> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(filtered-160255308:///emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock): Permission denied: "/srv/bzr/emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock/lufitpwgqo.tmp": [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/srv/bzr/emacs/emacs-23/.bzr/branch/lock/lufitpwgqo.tmp' > > That _is_ a local lock on your machine. Did you Ctrl-C in the middle > of a commit or something? How do I tell it's a local lock? I don't have /srv/bzr. I thought that was on the server. No, I didn't do C-c. I have since pushed to bzr+ssh, so perhaps the problem was one of authentication, and really just permissions on the server. >> The usual bzr comment: This is not the only weird problem I had with Bazaar, and I was just trying to push a change to make the 23 branch compile again. It's been slow, I've seen unclear error messages, and now I can't push. Oh man. > > What is your network bandwidth? It's quite fast for me (I have 3.5Mbps). I think we've got 800Mbps lines and we're members of Internet2. My local ethernet connection is 100Mbps. I think it's fast enough. Besides, it's local operations that are slow. "bzr log" isn't as awfully slow as it once was, but it still interrupts the workflow. dr@elin:~/Projects/emacs/emacs-23 $ time bzr log >/dev/null real 0m33.780s First page only: real 0m3.594s [faster when repeated,i.e., in cache] dr@elin:~/em23 emacs23$ time git log >/dev/null real 0m5.427s First page only: real 0m0.810s [faster when cached] The merge of a single revision (-c) also took a long time. I've updated bzr to the latest version. FWIW, dr@elin:~/Projects/emacs/emacs-23 $ bzr info Repository tree (format: 2a) Location: shared repository: /Users/dr/Projects/emacs repository branch: . Related branches: push branch: bzr://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-23 parent branch: bzr://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-23 submit branch: bzr://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-23 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: 23 branch - can't push - lock 2011-06-16 17:44 ` David Reitter @ 2011-06-16 20:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2011-06-17 13:57 ` David Reitter 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-06-16 20:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Reitter; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: David Reitter <david.reitter@gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 13:44:46 -0400 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > How do I tell it's a local lock? I don't have /srv/bzr. Then I was mistaken, and it's not local. I assume that when you said "there's a lock", you had evidence there indeed was a lock. > I thought that was on the server. No, I didn't do C-c. I have since pushed to bzr+ssh, so perhaps the problem was one of authentication, and really just permissions on the server. Maybe. I always use bzr+ssh. > dr@elin:~/Projects/emacs/emacs-23 $ time bzr log >/dev/null > real 0m33.780s Why in the world would you need the log of all the 104K revisions? Btw, I suggest to set up a bzr alias so that "log" is actually "log --line", it's much more concise and faster, too. > First page only: > real 0m3.594s [faster when repeated,i.e., in cache] What kind of machine is that? On my 6-year-old Windows box with a single 3 GHz core, I get this: D:\gnu\bzr\emacs\trunk>timep bzr --no-plugins log -l40 > nul real 00h00m00.437s user 00h00m00.343s sys 00h00m00.078s D:\gnu\bzr\emacs\trunk>timep bzr log -l40 > nul real 00h00m00.812s user 00h00m00.500s sys 00h00m00.281s And anyway, 3.5 sec is hardly significantly different from 0.8, for producing something that a human needs to _read_. > dr@elin:~/em23 emacs23$ time git log >/dev/null > real 0m5.427s Irrelevant. But OTOH, this is _very_ relevant for my work on the display engine: D:\gnu\bzr\emacs\trunk>timep bzr annotate src/xdisp.c > nul real 00h01m23.421s user 00h01m18.734s sys 00h00m03.046s eliz@fencepost:~/git/emacs$ time git annotate src/xdisp.c > /dev/null real 8m28.865s user 7m45.490s sys 0m6.090s (The second timing is from fencepost.gnu.org, a multicore x86_64 server that is much faster than what I have here.) > The merge of a single revision (-c) also took a long time. How long is "long" in this case? (You can look it up in your ~/.bzr.log file, it logs the time and network throughput/speed of each command, something I've searched high and low in git and couldn't find.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: 23 branch - can't push - lock 2011-06-16 20:09 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-06-17 13:57 ` David Reitter 2011-06-17 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 2011-06-17 16:30 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: David Reitter @ 2011-06-17 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel On Jun 16, 2011, at 4:09 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> First page only: >> real 0m3.594s [faster when repeated,i.e., in cache] > > What kind of machine is that? On my 6-year-old Windows box with a > single 3 GHz core, I get this: Core i7, 2.6GHz, 4GB RAM. > And anyway, 3.5 sec is hardly significantly different from 0.8, for > producing something that a human needs to _read_. Actually, I disagree. A modern interface should not make the user wait that long - I would estimate anything beyond 30ms is discernible, and anything beyond 1s may be seen as interrupting someone's workflow. At some point, people (perhaps including you) did an awesome job making Emacs start up fast. I have had many complaints from Aquamacs users because it didn't start up as fast (loading a few more libraries, etc) - and we're talking 3-4 seconds here. Just getting the first pages of a log should happen instantly - this is an operation one does all the time. I'd find the timing you get acceptable, but mine is just sluggish. (And I agree, vc-annotate should also be reasonably fast, even though I'd accept a few seconds delay here). >> The merge of a single revision (-c) also took a long time. > > How long is "long" in this case? (You can look it up in your > ~/.bzr.log file, it logs the time and network throughput/speed of each > command, something I've searched high and low in git and couldn't > find.) I started out with the wrong command, "bzr merge -c 104024", because I thought that the revision ID is unique (sorry, Git thinking). It took 65 seconds to give me an error message! And the wording of the error message wasn't even very user-level: InvalidRevisionSpec: Requested revision: u'104024' does not exist in branch: BzrBranch7('file:///Users/dr/Projects/emacs/emacs-23/') Then I did the right thing, and it took 112 seconds (see below). > Thu 2011-06-16 11:07:41 -0400 > 0.070 bazaar version: 2.1.0 > 0.070 bzr arguments: [u'merge', u'-c', u'104024', u'../trunk'] > 0.084 looking for plugins in /Users/dr/.bazaar/plugins > 0.138 looking for plugins in /Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins > 0.282 Returning RevisionSpec RevisionSpec_before for before:104024 > 0.283 encoding stdout as sys.stdout encoding 'us-ascii' > 0.396 opening working tree '/Users/dr/Projects/emacs/emacs-23' > [64363] 2011-06-16 11:09:25.819 INFO: M src/ChangeLog > [64363] 2011-06-16 11:09:25.885 INFO: M src/nsmenu.m > [64363] 2011-06-16 11:09:25.885 WARNING: Text conflict in src/ChangeLog > [64363] 2011-06-16 11:09:25.885 WARNING: Text conflict in src/nsmenu.m > [64363] 2011-06-16 11:09:31.749 INFO: 2 conflicts encountered. > 112.112 Transferred: 0KiB (0.0K/s r:0K w:0K) > 112.112 return code 1 I updated Bazaar after that to 2.3.1, and did the same merge a second time (this one may be much easier for Bzr now - I don't know). It still took 20 seconds. That's sluggish in my book. Is there a way to reset a branch to a previous commit, i.e., the equivalent of "git reset --hard"? Then I could test this better. With --no-plugins, the time is cut in half. Better, but still sluggish. I'll see if I can eliminate some plugins if they hurt performance so much. Thanks for this hint. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: 23 branch - can't push - lock 2011-06-17 13:57 ` David Reitter @ 2011-06-17 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 2011-06-17 19:19 ` UI / reaction time - was: " David Reitter 2011-06-19 13:42 ` Stephen J. Turnbull 2011-06-17 16:30 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-06-17 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Reitter; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: David Reitter <david.reitter@gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:57:43 -0400 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > On Jun 16, 2011, at 4:09 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> First page only: > >> real 0m3.594s [faster when repeated,i.e., in cache] > > > > What kind of machine is that? On my 6-year-old Windows box with a > > single 3 GHz core, I get this: > > Core i7, 2.6GHz, 4GB RAM. Strange. It should be faster than mine. > > And anyway, 3.5 sec is hardly significantly different from 0.8, for > > producing something that a human needs to _read_. > > Actually, I disagree. If you see 3.5 sec as a significant delay, I wonder what's your opinion about GCC compiling Emacs sources. And in case of "bzr log" the results need to be read by you, which will certainly take more than just 3 seconds. > A modern interface should not make the user wait that long - I would estimate anything beyond 30ms is discernible How do you mean "discernible"? Most humans are generally unable to react in less than 200-300ms, so 30ms is an order of magnitude off the mark. > and anything beyond 1s may be seen as interrupting someone's workflow. Typing a command takes more than 1s, so I guess your workflow is being interrupted all the time, and you are used to it anyway ;-) > At some point, people (perhaps including you) did an awesome job making Emacs start up fast. I only start my Emacs once in several weeks, so the startup (which is quite long, actually, because my sessions visit a lot of files) doesn't bother me more than the time it takes the entire machine to come up. > Just getting the first pages of a log should happen instantly Well, it takes less than 1s here, which is instant enough for me. > I'd find the timing you get acceptable, but mine is just sluggish. You should investigate the reasons for that sluggishness, then. > I started out with the wrong command, "bzr merge -c 104024", because I thought that the revision ID is unique (sorry, Git thinking). It took 65 seconds to give me an error message! How about submitting a bug report (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr) about that? > And the wording of the error message wasn't even very user-level: > > InvalidRevisionSpec: Requested revision: u'104024' does not exist in branch: BzrBranch7('file:///Users/dr/Projects/emacs/emacs-23/') Is that what was displayed on the screen, or is it from .bzr.log? The latter is not only for users, so I would tolerate some technicalities there for the sake of technical information the developers will want to know. > I updated Bazaar after that to 2.3.1, and did the same merge a second time (this one may be much easier for Bzr now - I don't know). > It still took 20 seconds. That's sluggish in my book. Most of my merges take less than 5 sec, but some took 20 or 30s. I don't consider that to be sluggish, but if you don't mind to live on the edge, try the latest beta of bzr 2.4, I understand that "merge" got a significant speedup there. > Is there a way to reset a branch to a previous commit, i.e., the equivalent of "git reset --hard"? That's git talk, and I don't really know what it means. If you want to be able to re-apply the same merge, I think you want "bzr uncommit". (But don't try that with a bound branch!) Alternatively, make a new branch from the revision before the merge, and then merge onto that. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* UI / reaction time - was: Re: 23 branch - can't push - lock 2011-06-17 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-06-17 19:19 ` David Reitter 2011-06-17 21:59 ` chad 2011-06-19 13:42 ` Stephen J. Turnbull 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: David Reitter @ 2011-06-17 19:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Emacs devel On Jun 17, 2011, at 11:39 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > How do you mean "discernible"? Most humans are generally unable to > react in less than 200-300ms, so 30ms is an order of magnitude off the > mark. Reaction requires a chain of not only perception and related encoding, but also planning possibly moderated by execute control, possibly memory access, motor planning and actual execution. That takes time. In some cases, after some reactions have been routinized, you can sidestep much of that, and react more quickly. That said, not reactions are relevant, but change detection and perceived duration. Current cognitive modeling frameworks assume a 50ms "clock" for cognitive processing (simple, IF-THEN rules, for instance, in Anderson's ACT-R), and this is where I derived this figure. You may be right in that more than that is needed to estimate relative duration, let alone be bothered by a wait. Some people can perceive duration in a visual stimulus in around 100ms (a study by Efron in 1970 found 120ms as minimum). Change detection seems to be similarly quick when subjects attend to the location (Pashler 1988). We may both be missing the point with this, though. At around 1s, isn't it much more about what users "feel" is fast or a delay, as opposed to whether they can make use of the actual speed-up? The figures you obtained (less than 1 sec) seem OK to me (subjectively), while the pauses I experienced (several seconds) seemed unpleasant. They were at a larger scale than that. Thanks for the hints regarding speeding up bzr and undoing a commit. I'll leave that portion of the discussion, as it has little to do with Emacs, as Stefan pointed out. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: UI / reaction time - was: Re: 23 branch - can't push - lock 2011-06-17 19:19 ` UI / reaction time - was: " David Reitter @ 2011-06-17 21:59 ` chad 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: chad @ 2011-06-17 21:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Reitter; +Cc: Emacs devel User testing continues to suggest that human reactions work very roughly on decimal seconds -- .1 seconds is `instant', 1 second is `fast', and 10 seconds is `slow'. There are obvious outliers, but this guideline survived from (at least) the early Apple UI tests through ~2001, when I stopped paying attention -- but I'll be surprised if it's changed much. To the point, bazaar/git continues to be much faster than git/bazaar for some operations and much slower for others. Neither is fast at all of the `important' operations for all developers, and the architecture of each suggests that these things are unlikely to change (although we can hope for improvements to both, over time). Hope that helps, *Chad ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: 23 branch - can't push - lock 2011-06-17 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 2011-06-17 19:19 ` UI / reaction time - was: " David Reitter @ 2011-06-19 13:42 ` Stephen J. Turnbull 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2011-06-19 13:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: David Reitter, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii writes: > > Is there a way to reset a branch to a previous commit, i.e., the equivalent of "git reset --hard"? > > That's git talk, and I don't really know what it means. It means moving the tip pointer of the current branch to point at a different revision (usually older, but not necessarily so), and simultaneously checkout the workspace corresponding to that revision. The answer is yes, Robert Collins told me how to do it about three years ago, but in vanilla bzr there was no simple equivalent to git tag tmp git reset --hard somewhere-else so the bzr equivalent was necessarily destructive unless you extract the rev-id and save it away by hand. (Of course this is scriptable.) I found that sufficiently painful that I just avoid the need, and don't recall that necessary arcana. Depending on the use case there are various commands that have the same effect that "git --reset hard" does, but none of them work across the board. Look up the docs for update, revert, and uncommit. I would assume that colo-enabled versions of bazaar have something similar to git reset, though, and if not it shouldn't be hard to implement. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: 23 branch - can't push - lock 2011-06-17 13:57 ` David Reitter 2011-06-17 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-06-17 16:30 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2011-06-17 16:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Reitter; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel > Just getting the first pages of a log should happen instantly - this is an > operation one does all the time. I'd find the timing you get acceptable, > but mine is just sluggish. Can you move this discussion elsewhere? AFAIK Emacs can't make this operation faster (tho maybe we could create a new branch and merge from trunk to that new branch (so the current revision would become revision 2 or so), and hope that Bzr becomes snappier because there are fewer revisions). Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-06-19 13:42 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2011-06-16 15:49 23 branch - can't push - lock David Reitter 2011-06-16 16:28 ` David Reitter 2011-06-16 21:44 ` Glenn Morris 2011-06-16 17:27 ` Eli Zaretskii 2011-06-16 17:44 ` David Reitter 2011-06-16 20:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2011-06-17 13:57 ` David Reitter 2011-06-17 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 2011-06-17 19:19 ` UI / reaction time - was: " David Reitter 2011-06-17 21:59 ` chad 2011-06-19 13:42 ` Stephen J. Turnbull 2011-06-17 16:30 ` Stefan Monnier
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git This is an external index of several public inboxes, see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror all data and code used by this external index.