From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs Subject: bug#3941: 23.0.96; doc for distinguishing interactive calls Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:17:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1B8E3AD4E5A54942B171CBB0F94FB7F3@us.oracle.com> References: <399BB9E1A8B54AB3A1C2AC4BCF27C9F2@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: Drew Adams , 3941@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248683879 389 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2009 08:37:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:37:59 +0000 (UTC) To: <3941@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>, Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 27 10:37:51 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MVLiL-0000hZ-VV for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:37:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37275 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MVLiL-00064u-7V for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:37:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MVLiF-00064J-6q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:37:39 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MVLiA-00063g-MO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:37:38 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33602 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MVLiA-00063K-8b for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:37:34 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:54061) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVLi9-00034v-Eg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:37:33 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6R8bUx1000878; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:37:31 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n6R8P51W031208; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:25:05 -0700 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:25:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 3941 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.124868264830232 (code B ref -1); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:25:05 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Jul 2009 08:17:28 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n6R8HMiX030214 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:17:23 -0700 Original-Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:60093 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MVLOb-0005Vo-LL for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:17:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVLOZ-00084o-Ul for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:17:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:16089) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVLOZ-00084i-Jb for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:17:19 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVLOY-0000eQ-SB for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:17:19 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6R8HOWi010348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:17:25 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt009.oracle.com (abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6R8HG0k026905; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:17:17 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.232.119) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:17:04 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <399BB9E1A8B54AB3A1C2AC4BCF27C9F2@us.oracle.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcoOjfB/73kcYjWFS0iZKYT1/XXykQAAm6Ug X-Source-IP: abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4A6D6281.013D:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Detected-Operating-System: by mx20.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:37:38 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:29652 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:24857 Archived-At: Sorry that I didn't include anything about the doc string of `interactive-p' when I reported this bug. As should be clear from what I wrote, that doc string is also horrible. Please remove the last two paragraphs entirely - the first paragraph is OK. "The only known proper use of `interactive-p'..." - that's garbage. You make it sound like something unclean and bizarre, if not perverted. This is a total twisting of what was said in Emacs 20-21 about the simple, common use case of displaying a message only for interactive use. From "the most common use case" we have moved to "the only known proper use". Soon we will be burning witches. ;-) Simply state that `interactive-p' returns nil when called during interactive execution of a keyboard macro, and that if you want a non-nil value in that use case then use `called-interactively-p' instead. That's all. No big deal. And fix the doc string of `called-interactively-p' similarly, to mention that difference from `interactive-p'. And remove its similar moralizing about "the cleanest way". And why say "This is used for implementing advice and other function-modifying features of Emacs"? That is misleading, and it doesn't help a bit. Except for that difference of behavior wrt keyboard macros, IIUC, these two functions behave the same. There is absolutely no reason for the misleading and alarmist tone of the doc strings. Each function has a behavior and a purpose. Please stop with the "the way to do that is" and "the only known proper use is" and "the recommended way is". (Someone spent too much time at catechism.) Just give users technical _information_ about (a) the behaviors and hence (b) appropriate use cases. Forget about what's "proper" and "the way". That's not helpful.