From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1993: 23.0.60; Emacs.app has only transparent window background Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 12:00:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1B5766A7-D82A-4E71-807B-532A2DA38E2E@gmail.com> References: <2047928B-CCE1-4A20-9280-B671282A819F@Freenet.DE> Reply-To: David Reitter , 1993@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1238862258 32528 80.91.229.12 (4 Apr 2009 16:24:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:24:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 1993@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, Peter Dyballa To: Adrian Robert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 04 18:25:36 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Lq8gZ-00050W-Jg for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:25:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43482 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Lq8fB-0003dW-GK for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:24:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Lq8ex-0003Y5-JI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:23:55 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Lq8es-0003XH-JY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:23:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=54290 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Lq8es-0003X9-Fl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:23:50 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:50359) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Lq8er-00057C-T3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:23:50 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n34GNlEs022070; Sat, 4 Apr 2009 09:23:48 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n34GA4Kp018006; Sat, 4 Apr 2009 09:10:04 -0700 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: David Reitter Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 16:10:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 1993 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,ns X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 1993-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1993.123886085315626 (code B ref 1993); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 16:10:04 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1993) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 4 Apr 2009 16:00:53 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.27]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n34G0oN3015617 for <1993@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 4 Apr 2009 09:00:51 -0700 Original-Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 8so1251162qwh.13 for <1993@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 09:00:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=3iBmqNabosVbVLQ8LlkrSL4CiyDGtUGq+orBXkacAWY=; b=InrBDU5d8yFTf8ta3p59xAzfLjXV+K8G56YAo8Dze9+tUvHwSn56asVSfm0QORbZS5 +aazFdGBBctK5sfhLNT1zqdwG9qASvt4QdL6mYh/ztFY1F4aWsXAal6d6dZgGMIFPLuc 2Av3GVbtRrXi91bo00HhAmcarL8dOn+YMKanM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=Ns56EGQBzOGk8lIRSNOuUXv6YvWUIDJdxtFdvukkyKkAf3FLrUat4YxePYGK1MU5mD Yk9VFBfg4od2ggkvaTu/ttUuIa9Ruw4UVx7QW234b31h8ELkibnpP6DZWwE5M4eKySST 1uhlYU1KDLxx/EUMg5HnO931ciifUk/wDZvBc= Original-Received: by 10.224.74.16 with SMTP id s16mr2442526qaj.320.1238860849816; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 09:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from lucy.local (pool-72-65-195-138.pitbpa.east.verizon.net [72.65.195.138]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm2592051qwh.18.2009.04.04.09.00.48 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 09:00:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:23:54 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:26910 Archived-At: On 4 Apr 2009, at 02:26, Adrian Robert wrote: > > So my feeling is that the command=meta option is preferred by text- > writing Continentals, while command = command is likely preferred by > everyone else. I am not sure which group makes up a larger subset > of OS X emacs users. Well, a pretty stable 50% of all Aquamacs users are US based. > I do know that I received a few complaints over the years from folks > disliking the Emacs.app command=command default. My answer was > always to rehash the above and note that it's easy to change it -- > just flip a combo box in the prefs panel. Now that it's not so easy > (I guess figuring out the existence of ns/mac-command-modifier > variable and writing suitable elisp to .emacs is necessary), the > default setting becomes more important. That's right. Similarly, I have received plenty of complaints about Option=Meta, especially in the early days of Aquamacs. > >>> Could be done, but I think we should stick to one default for all >>> layouts. >>> >> >> Then the system's one. No artificial changes. > > > I agree with both of these. So perhaps the best default would be > command=command (super), alt=none, and the user can set a meta key > (additional to esc+) if he/she desires. Well, that would be another alternative - maybe a good one. It's my second-preferred variant. The reason why I support Command=Meta for Emacs 23 is experience from working with Aquamacs and Carbon Emacs users. It seems to me that there is a division between Emacs traditionalists, who would like an Emacs with maximum compatibility across platforms. These people don't need/want Mac keybindings. On the other end, you find people with the need for cross-application integration. Unsurprisingly, that's the typical Aquamacs user, while the traditionalists compile Emacs from scratch or use a distribution like Carbon Emacs Package. Due to this polarization, I think that it is sensible to Emacs Emacs- compatible. Because otherwise, I'm not sure who's going to fill the void. (That said, Meta=Esc is a perfectly acceptable default setting, too. Just not my #1 choice.)