From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Trey Jackson" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 21:16:27 -0800 Message-ID: <198e25e10801062116q68feafcan69265965ada0bc59@mail.gmail.com> References: <198e25e10801052103p7acfcacdndaf925ea4c557e98@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0150603306==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199683000 8868 80.91.229.12 (7 Jan 2008 05:16:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 05:16:40 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 07 06:17:01 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JBkM8-0001H5-BA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 06:17:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JBkLl-0000b8-Bb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 00:16:37 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JBkLf-0000X0-Oh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 00:16:31 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JBkLd-0000Vu-Qs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 00:16:31 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JBkLd-0000Vm-Jx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 00:16:29 -0500 Original-Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.188]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JBkLd-0000CW-A0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 00:16:29 -0500 Original-Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c27so9414329rvf.6 for ; Sun, 06 Jan 2008 21:16:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=wP3zyXZLKNRuSlYSlqaIgnB1dJjllRHTYw/aNyhZ/48=; b=C65EaSGh9ac1eHDEcnd9Tle+CFIKRHN4YWRKU9PzZGzbfzjSQpqRcPC77Eo7i1aoaN5fTQaWk8bNotZjeXMqw+Es+d3Z4fI0geGA6VQzd5otuiwiTNtVv66nH2HeUYMeGY7hgtnsycEk0t7uspyj8c8y/jEM0RK+0g9xz8eVdjw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=KT8M3FPug9x6E5Z5drJZFlTmZLk0TegIBw5DCF8BJjo/IlVlvWmK1VfFpvICyuBRKmw/IxJCVzpyUDHWYMjtd9Th8MQbs2Ozp+Lu/IVl1I8ne/TIRHLoXSIKodn+E6ecTSFPSDnvzJmDP2KUL/F5qZ7ze6ij58P5MM9yn0NFslE= Original-Received: by 10.143.16.9 with SMTP id t9mr2076282wfi.107.1199682987598; Sun, 06 Jan 2008 21:16:27 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.142.116.12 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Jan 2008 21:16:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:86432 Archived-At: --===============0150603306== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_28585_2025295.1199682987591" ------=_Part_28585_2025295.1199682987591 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Jan 6, 2008 10:09 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > The graphical improvements to GUD are nice, but as far as I can see, > the new > features are limited to viewing GUD data. > > Isn't that what an IDE is? Something to let you look at execution > data and source code in a convenient coordinated way? As in my other email, an IDE is often more - pulling together bug tracking, plug-ins for profilers, code browsers, project planning, etc. The improved GUD is nice, but other IDEs have a lot more. (if you want to want to go that route)) > project management (files & build) > > What does that mean? Is it some alternative to makefiles? > Yeah, a number of IDEs have this (GreenHills, MSVS). I find them awkward and confusing. My understanding is that the IDE then knows about all the files in the 'project' and can automatically generate tags, do class browsing, and other such things. I only mentioned that because it's functionality that exists elsewhere. I don't see a use for it in GNU tools. > bug tracking (see the other threads) > task management (planner.el, todo-mode, etc.) > code browsing (yes, it exists, but as add-ons) > manage window configurations (Eclipse calls them perspectives) > > I would like to know more about this. Emacs lacks convenient features > to usefully save and adjust window configurations, and it would be nice > to add that as a general feature. > I don't know much about it, just that it appears that you can set up window configurations for each task, e.g. the window arrangement for the new GUD-ui, one for actually coding (perhaps with class browser (ECB?)), one for interacting with VCS, etc. This does appear to be a high return on investment kind of project. One page for documentation on it is: http://wiki.eclipse.org/FAQ_How_do_I_create_fixed_views_and_perspectives%3Fwhich gives a sense that you can have fixed configurations and changeable... This may involve more of a "mode" approach to interacting with Emacs, but that could be OK given the complex tasks being acted on in these situations. I never looked at Gnus to see how it manages window configurations (nor gud-ui, nor...) side note: this is why I brought up the whole IDE subject, because perhaps some of the functionality would be found to be useful... TJ -- Trey Jackson bigfaceworm@gmail.com "Like any truly useful program, `hello' contains a built-in mail reader." -- GNU's Bulletin, July 1996 ------=_Part_28585_2025295.1199682987591 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Jan 6, 2008 10:09 AM, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
   The graphical improvements to GUD are nice, but as far as I can see, the new
   features are limited to viewing GUD data.

Isn't that what an IDE is?  Something to let you look at execution
data and source code in a convenient coordinated way?

As in my other email, an IDE is often more - pulling together bug tracking, plug-ins for profilers, code browsers, project planning, etc.  The improved GUD is nice, but other IDEs have a lot more.   (if you want to want to go that route))
 
   project management (files & build)

What does that mean?  Is it some alternative to makefiles?

Yeah, a number of IDEs have this (GreenHills, MSVS).  I find them awkward and confusing.  My understanding is that the IDE then knows about all the files in the 'project' and can automatically generate tags, do class browsing, and other such things.

I only mentioned that because it's functionality that exists elsewhere.  I don't see a use for it in GNU tools.
 
   bug tracking (see the other threads)
   task management (planner.el, todo-mode, etc.)
   code browsing (yes, it exists, but as add-ons)
   manage window configurations (Eclipse calls them perspectives)

I would like to know more about this.  Emacs lacks convenient features
to usefully save and adjust window configurations, and it would be nice
to add that as a general feature.

I don't know much about it, just that it appears that you can set up window configurations for each task, e.g. the window arrangement for the new GUD-ui, one for actually coding (perhaps with class browser (ECB?)), one for interacting with VCS, etc.  This does appear to be a high return on investment kind of project.

One page for documentation on it is: http://wiki.eclipse.org/FAQ_How_do_I_create_fixed_views_and_perspectives%3F which gives a sense that you can have fixed configurations and changeable... This may involve more of a "mode" approach to interacting with Emacs, but that could be OK given the complex tasks being acted on in these situations.  I never looked at Gnus to see how it manages window configurations (nor gud-ui, nor...)


side note: this is why I brought up the whole IDE subject, because perhaps some of the functionality would be found to be useful...

TJ

--
Trey Jackson
bigfaceworm@gmail.com
"Like any truly useful program, `hello' contains a built-in mail reader."
-- GNU's Bulletin, July 1996
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