From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Some developement questions Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:34:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <196033312.7709403.1534426446299@mail.yahoo.com> References: <196033312.7709403.1534426446299.ref@mail.yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7709402_314417712.1534426446297" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1534427738 8436 195.159.176.226 (16 Aug 2018 13:55:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:55:38 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 16 15:55:34 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fqIkO-00023L-IV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 15:55:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55769 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fqImU-0000AW-Rw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:57:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59963) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fqITd-0006jb-Ap for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:38:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fqITZ-0003Ux-Aa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:38:13 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic304-48.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.191.174]:46474) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fqITY-0003UP-VI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:38:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1534426687; bh=QeKsFMrFcdrNHZa1xQvS2zzrZb+Qk1cxYslt3Dw/ag4=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject; b=ljkAk5GchS0oJfNB95AKITemiPwzP6UEBx6wmX/M+XfAQ4Xexi9EftCFWwTkPfbHNbzbc0aB/NZZVWQWqenYdLhMe7i8gtrnCU/bXynzfuDXtjhx0GE2/jVq+kTYonSSZNPxFseaRIx1Au3iGUthh8BTTrh0EeSLtswp/TjifWZqELhDGhAXCvzragyjBPJeb+Sl2+ly9PmMX/E0WwRWR/WvwTmY11RGc9uJzE4yapKWFx/aX9JxAvdlPtlLcNSJrohzI5SfRFWGmFAbh82tukHLkkJAYyZzpxQA4AngOa8HVTf8WF7NgTvDEv3MY4vvSB0yCUcbLfe2Md5WBHQ5kg== X-YMail-OSG: lnULSZ0VM1lSagXvPWJDxFywmhsRiD07hyBDdzpO78NkLtEP15y.baMWQcgeUiX 5XJjyoIMtU34ycuGIGa42S5reXU7SifioJg9Iu0EhIJh_fcHQc35FqpY0Gxp6phCJrkOwJmDv42l jozwZDlWMdw0jHt84etpdl096R7i8A7.fTzLuWc8Fr8OH_hBxMycR8MfbDBOE8PzXWQ4XL2n82Sw 08KDv6g1CMaMrv0edXoKoR7w6T18X8Em4I9WYRcDo9t8iNcPy3FTujC3zCZLdRdS2nXH5CSM_DOJ RawS3_ULUDT0RXKm7yHln_2Sh4IJFxaR8tOWuwN.gPgNEHXYYgBi3MX93pkIQ9eT0OMlO6hi3hn1 _zEGXDYQUL_ebSPIpV.4oOOt2wjZ4_UTC3WfEjyAJPI4Qa.8BjdvViUo1pcEd__Yiy6zWS7FEkaS AeSYt4C.ESAIWPeIc7IuhcLyfQi3ekVS3FEBAIESPQgS8sQ15AUJBb7arLYK1WHzo9O1uOcNI83M Q23oXgjiBGGOXs7ihd4bwO9P8RaXUjWkA_S7RntNajgoYB3gLnGm4_MgzuZF7Grb7BsWv.BP_4Yg IbslCksMy019qWla4MYRpkFDN2IpovB8AqD9uaUPJK5thbQHij1RMsiC8trHg_NU45BT00pPFwr_ m69cfGK73wbx1hmLpnkedBdGYKnzMXMcSCZALanxcRXlG.FshvibtXFOgsOR.hsPPZ3irwJe97Fn 2qUrGNSx43DQqOq0yNMdD8z2ptQ8G7e65BEhxLhAWZOxCcYt1iAr2mf7Be3IbTO0dYhOQ05TLo0j 88FFaeaJ.b9T0BRVs.7WlvgMVx.4FVMmMzocd8XKcv Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:38:07 +0000 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12206 aolwebmail Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:61.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/61.0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 66.163.191.174 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:228590 Archived-At: ------=_Part_7709402_314417712.1534426446297 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi: This is my first mail in this list and maybe this is not the right place to= ask, but I don't know where to (I don't use twitter or any other social ne= twork) I have been using emacs for around 4 years now, and after all this time me= and the the other 3 emacs user in my work have accumulated many question t= hat will be very nice if any experimented user/developer could reply (even = if you delete this mail from the list).=20 - Why does emacs doesn't have a C api to create extensions as almost everyt= hing else in the Linux environment? I know Elisp is very powerful, but many= functionalities actually requires to start external processes or call shel= l commands=C2=A0 intensively to work (magit, irony) and then parse the oulp= ut when they could use the libraries and the APIs directly with dlopen or m= aybe with a more simplified/efficient approach. C is also the connection wi= th everything (Python, Ruby, or FORTRAN) and nowadays there are more C/Pyth= on developers than Lisp developers, so many extensions could be created or = ported. As is happening with vim actually. - What's the actual status for the emacs-guile integration and why is it ab= andoned since 2015? This has to do with the previous and the next question = because Guile already has a powerful C API, multithreading and many other f= unctionalities that are been duplicated now in emacs. Maybe the future for = guile is inside emacs. - Native compiler? We have seen in the list some people talking about JIT c= ompilation. Isn't it easier and more efficient to create a native code comp= iler like the one in Guile or maybe something that takes advantage of GCC, = or a source to source compiler. Most of the extensions are just functions c= alls and loops and in this way Emacs could take advantage of the other's pr= oject progress and the emacs developers could put their effort in the most = emacs's specific tasks? 95% of Emacs users are programmers, so a C compiler= dependency shouldn't be an issue ans for sure there will be some performan= ce improvement. - As there are less developers now, why not to consider to make a cleanup a= nd melt/join/merge projects/modes, for example (vile, evil and equivalent a= ll do the same). This could be very helpful not only for the projects but a= lso for the documentation that is becoming obsolete in emacswiki we suppose= because of manpower. The same could apply to melpa projects that are unmai= ntained for a very long time. Some of them just don't work and have not rec= eived any commit in 6 or 8 years, so they probably break newest emacs Relea= ses and nobody knows. You could also get tracks of the downloads. - I have asked in my work and we are 4 emacs users only (in spite of we are= more than 400 programmers) while most of the 3/4 of them are using vim. Th= e main justifications are: "it is there" and "it doesn't require to configu= re anything". I have seen projects like spacemacs that solves somehow the c= onfiguration with a first start menu. Why don't you add a first time startu= p menu for the basic initial configuration in the default emacs, just to cr= eate a readable basic init.el? With use-packages it will be not that hard!!= . Times have changed and young users need some hep to discover emacs, they = will want to learn configuration details, elisp and the rest with the time.= And nobody used the actual default emacs configuration. Spacemacs solves i= t partially but it makes absurdly complex to add manual configuration latte= r. And we don't need more abstractions layers. Simple questions like: add m= elpa? use vi like binds, or ergoemacs or ...? or use emacsserver? and some = variable details that can be set very easily to have a functional user-frie= ndly, minimal personalized environment like the the theme, linum, terminal = or graphical interface by default). The idea is not only to make it easier,= but also to show the power of emacs.=20 Sorry for the extension, but we prefer one long mail instead of 4 shorter m= ails.Very thanks in advance Ergus ------=_Part_7709402_314417712.1534426446297 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi:

This is my first mail in this list and maybe this is = not the right place to ask, but I don't know where to (I don't use twitter = or any other social network)

I have been using emacs for around 4 years now, and after all this time me= and the the other 3 emacs user in my work have accumulated many question t= hat will be very nice if any experimented user/developer could reply (even = if you delete this mail from the list).

- Why does emacs doesn't have a C api to create exten= sions as almost everything else in the Linux environment? I know Elisp is v= ery powerful, but many functionalities actually requires to start external = processes or call shell commands  intensively to work (magit, irony) a= nd then parse the oulput when they could use the libraries and the APIs dir= ectly with dlopen or maybe with a more simplified/efficient approach. C is = also the connection with everything (Python, Ruby, or FORTRAN) and nowadays= there are more C/Python developers than Lisp developers, so many extension= s could be created or ported. As is happening with vim actually.

- What's the actual status for the emacs-guile integration and why is it ab= andoned since 2015? This has to do with the previous and the next question = because Guile already has a powerful C API, multithreading and many other f= unctionalities that are been duplicated now in emacs. Maybe the future for = guile is inside emacs.

- Native compiler? We have seen in the list some people talking about JIT c= ompilation. Isn't it easier and more efficient to create a native code comp= iler like the one in Guile or maybe something that takes advantage of GCC, = or a source to source compiler. Most of the extensions are just functions c= alls and loops and in this way Emacs could take advantage of the other's pr= oject progress and the emacs developers could put their effort in the most = emacs's specific tasks? 95% of Emacs users are programmers, so a C compiler= dependency shouldn't be an issue ans for sure there will be some performan= ce improvement.

- As there are less developers now, why not to consider to make a cleanup a= nd melt/join/merge projects/modes, for example (vile, evil and equivalent a= ll do the same). This could be very helpful not only for the projects but a= lso for the documentation that is becoming obsolete in emacswiki we suppose= because of manpower. The same could apply to melpa projects that are unmai= ntained for a very long time. Some of them just don't work and have not rec= eived any commit in 6 or 8 years, so they probably break newest emacs Relea= ses and nobody knows. You could also get tracks of the downloads.

- I have asked in my work and we are 4 emacs users on= ly (in spite of we are more than 400 programmers) while most of the 3/4 of = them are using vim. The main justifications are: "it is there" and "it does= n't require to configure anything". I have seen projects like spacemacs tha= t solves somehow the configuration with a first start menu. Why don't you a= dd a first time startup menu for the basic initial configuration in the def= ault emacs, just to create a readable basic init.el? With use-packages it w= ill be not that hard!!. Times have changed and young users need some hep to= discover emacs, they will want to learn configuration details, elisp and t= he rest with the time. And nobody used the actual default emacs configurati= on. Spacemacs solves it partially but it makes absurdly complex to add manu= al configuration latter. And we don't need more abstractions layers. Simple= questions like: add melpa? use vi like binds, or ergoemacs or ...? or use = emacsserver? and some variable details that can be set very easily to have = a functional user-friendly, minimal personalized environment like the the t= heme, linum, terminal or graphical interface by default). The idea is not o= nly to make it easier, but also to show the power of emacs.
Sorry for the extension, but we prefer one long mail = instead of 4 shorter mails.
Very thanks in advance
Ergus

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