From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: AW: delete-selection-mode Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:42:09 -0700 Message-ID: <195916C0E72943579CFC8969883789EC@us.oracle.com> References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com><201003130001.o2D01FFQ003489@godzilla.ics.uci.edu><87vdd1yqe4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87eijjzrkd.fsf_-_@mail.jurta.org><874okf8dep.fsf@lola.goethe.zz><7697A57B1AD9104F993CDF6A5B69430C0A70E50872@CORPMAIL08.corp.capgemini.com> <87eijj6ok7.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268837070 28457 80.91.229.12 (17 Mar 2010 14:44:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:44:30 +0000 (UTC) To: "'David Kastrup'" , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 17 15:44:25 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NruTw-0005Av-QV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:44:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54790 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NruTw-0006nP-5I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:44:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NruTp-0006lQ-MD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:44:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=49640 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NruTl-0006kO-FA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:44:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NruTj-0007Nw-Kq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:44:13 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:32390) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NruTj-0007Nm-Fo; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:44:11 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o2HEi7OP021403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:44:10 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o2HEi2s3013074; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:44:02 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt016.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 93257961268836922; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:42:02 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.175.196.248) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:42:01 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87eijj6ok7.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Thread-Index: AcrF2delbqNTBntETuuXtWDV/B6MjQABXzKg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A0B0205.4BA0EAB7.012A:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122095 Archived-At: > > But IMHO the following is fact: Today Emacs has very strong > > competitors concerning "what is the most effective way to code my > > programs" - a lot of (commercial or free or open source) so called > > IDEs have adopted some of the pure editing power of Emacs > > but offer on > > top some power Emacs still lacks today, as for example > > real, fast and > > powerful refactoring, code navigation and other goodies you > > need much > > more for effective Code-development than some certain > > Emacs-specials. > > If they offer real, fast and powerful refactoring, code navigation and > other goodies, then the way to compete with them is to add powerful > refactoring, code navigation and other goodies to Emacs. If we make > Emacs the same as them, only worse, that won't help us. > > Efficient user interaction is one area that Emacs is good in, > partly due > to long discussions and diligent and carefully planned changes of > semantics. Why should we sacrifice that before the problems in > connection with normal user operation have found solutions? > > Emacs has useful syntax highlighting, useful transient marks, > useful GUI > integration, in particular when compared with the > "pathbreaker" XEmacs, > and part of the reason is that those features were not > enabled until the > problems around them have found satisfactory solutions. > > "Everybody else does it" is no substitute for efficient and useful > semantics. So now we're off onto a wide-open discussion of Emacs vs The Others, and Emacs vs The World. Sheesh. And I sardonically warned about the discussion going off into the boondocks of cua-mode, pc-selection-mode, and mice vs keyboards. I shoulda known that net wasn't wide enough... Anyway, you've provided an illustration in spades.